Exploiting Fare Anomalies

[whole diary]

[John R]

If I want to travel from A to B, but there is a cheaper fare from A to C, which is further along the line from B, then am I entitled to buy a ticket from A to B and never use the portion from B to C?  I'm thinking about normal tickets, not advance tickets.

Looking at the NCoC, I'm not sure?  The sections I'm interested in are highlighted.

eg

2. Requirement to hold a ticket
Before you travel you must have a ticket or other authority to travel which is valid for the train(s) you intend to use and for the journey you intend to make, unless the circumstances set out in (b) (i) or (ii) below apply.

If I never intended to go to C, is this ticket now valid to alight and return from B?

13. The route you are entitled to take
(a) You may travel between the stations shown on the ticket you hold in:
(i) a train on which you are able to make your entire journey without changing trains;
(ii) trains which take the shortest route which can be used by scheduled passenger services; or
(iii) trains which take the routes shown in the National Routeing Guide.

Again, does this entitle me to take a journey that isn't in relation to those two stations.

You may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the ticket you hold is valid for the trains you want to use. You may also end your journey (in either direction in the case of a return ticket) before the destination shown on the ticket.

Doesn't say anything about starting the journey short on the return journey.

Put to one side whether or not it can be evidenced whether the journey purchased is actually completed, as might be the case if C is an unstaffed station, or a cross London transfer is involved beyond B, what do people think is the legal position?  There is such a loophole that I am considering using soon, but I only want to do so if it is clear that it is permitted.

[grahame]

You may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the ticket you hold is valid for the trains you want to use.


Doesn't say anything about starting the journey short on the return journey.

Yes it does. With snips "You may start a journey in either direction at any intermediate station"

[John R]

Thanks Grahame.  Appreciate the clarification.

[ChrisB]

As long as the specific ticket's restrictions don't include a bar on finishing/starting short, yes you can.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

This is where it starts to get horrifically complicated ... just using one example off peak open return... an 'svr' is valid for a break of journey....a 'gvr' is not, however just looking at the ticket they would both say 'off peak return', if you don't mind a bit of a read brfares.com is very useful

[ChrisB]

As I understand it, no break condition can be added by the fare setting TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) to any ticket, regardless of type. One needs to check the fare code each time

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

Taken from a random ticket but as chris points out needs checking for each one http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=HMY&dest=MTA&expert=on&flow=1&multi=0&fare=5&rte=700&tkt=SVH

Ticket Code:       GVR/BVR/SVR
Ticket Class:         STANDARD
Ticket Name:          OFF-PEAK
Single/Return:          RETURN
Out Validity:-
Day  -          DATE ON TICKET
Time -               SEE BELOW
Return Validity:-
Day  -      ONE CALENDAR MONTH
Time -               SEE BELOW
Break of Journey -
GVR     (OUT/RTN) NO
BVR/SVR (OUT/RTN) YES
(SEE NOTES BELOW)
Pre-Booking Requirement:  NONE
Reservations Compulsory:    NO
Child Discount:            YES
Railcard Discount:         YES
Group Discount:            YES
Refunds: SEE 'REFUNDS' SECTION

[ChrisB]

As I say, it's not attached to the type of ticket, but the validity code - see further down that link, where it states

BREAK OF JOURNEY
Break of journey is allowed on
 the outward portion of
Off-Peak tickets UNLESS
OTHERWISE INDICATED BY A
RESTRICTION SHOWN AGAINST THE
TICKET'S VALIDITY CODE and
in all cases on the return
portion of Off-Peak return
tickets.

[stuving]

I think there's a specific reason why the example above (restriction code T2) is so confusing.

Under the heading "General Conditions (for this ticket type)", there are two bits dealing with break of journey for ticket type GVR:
Break of Journey -
"GVR     (OUT/RTN) NO
BVR/SVR (OUT/RTN) YES
(SEE NOTES BELOW)"

and, below that, under NOTES:
"BREAK OF JOURNEY
Break of journey is allowed on
 the outward portion of
Off-Peak tickets UNLESS
OTHERWISE INDICATED BY A
RESTRICTION SHOWN AGAINST THE
TICKET'S VALIDITY CODE and
in all cases on the return
portion of Off-Peak return
tickets."

That looks like a contradiction, though the restriction (or validity) code might resolve it. However, there is nothing about break of journey there. So those two statements do conflict.

There is, however, another way of removing this apparent paradox - if there are no GVR tickets with code T2. I imagine that (if type GVR is actually used at the moment) there is a related code (or a set of codes) that goes with it.

If that's how it really works, it means you need to be careful in drawing a conclusion from one of these bits of text covering multiple ticket types other than about a ticket you know exists. They appear to have lumped these types together so as to reduce the number of ticket type texts, and ignored the confusion that might result.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

To be honest I used a poor example... As far as I am aware gvr's were a type of off peak return used by east coast from Edinburgh and Bewick to London and were priced between the regular svr and the sor .... The main point of my post was to show how complicated it is and the follow up was in no way to disagree with anyone else but in my mind was supporting what was said by others

[grahame]

To be honest I used a poor example... As far as I am aware gvr's were a type of off peak return used by east coast from Edinburgh and Bewick to London and were priced between the regular svr and the sor ....

Ah - thank goodness for that - i was rather worried I had missed a common ticket type - but your post does remind me / everyone of the presence of (too many?) ticket types and exceptions.   

Where something less common is used ("exploiting anomalies" in the thread title) and it gives extra rights (as opposed to being more restricted at the GVR is), the passenger should be aware that staff may challenge - sometimes quite strongly.  I can recall this happening to me on two occasions - once long enough ago for it to be water well under the bridge now, and once recently using an off-peak cross-London ticket where the minor leg was the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) one, priced by another TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) with morning rather than both peak restrictions.