Penalty Fares

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

Announced last night. With the strict proviso that the 21 days is extended to start after any appeal is complete, I have no problem with this. Its the same as a speeding fine, buy a ticket when you are meant to & it will never apply.

Will need to await the finer detail.

Shouldn't this thread be in the 'Fares Fair' board?

[grahame]

Shouldn't this thread be in the 'Fares Fair' board?

Good point - it is now. All 45 posts in the thread!

I've no concern in principle - provided we're certain that the system is reasonably and fairly aoplied, and doesn't make people feel all the more threatened when they know they don't know the system and have to make an educated guess at an unmanned station, or cannot pay because there was no working way to do so!

[ChrisB]

Re your first point, I agree that the warning posters need far more detailed info on them - but they are at entrances to stations correctly & difficult to miss.

Re your second, agree wholeheartedly. But TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) do know what is out of order & list them under their journeycheck pages.

[grahame]

Re your first point, I agree that the warning posters need far more detailed info on them - but they are at entrances to stations correctly & difficult to miss.

Re your second, agree wholeheartedly. But TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) do know what is out of order & list them under their journeycheck pages.

Past experience does not re-assure me ... but then the incidents I'm thinking of are now historic and perhaps the railways don't make mistakes like the ticket clerk selling you the wrong ticket these days, and perhaps the train manager can always be  found if you board at an unmanned / no ticket available station, and leave at one that has a blockade.

[broadgage]

No objection to the increased penalty provided that this is applied fairly.
I have witnessed more than one case of penalty fares being applied unreasonably.

Passengers with tickets valid on booked train only.
They boarded a train at the correct time, as stated on the tickets.
In fact it was an earlier train running late and penalty fares were charged.
Some passengers paid up. Others said that they would "deal with" those demanding extra payment.

[Marlburian]

Interesting (??) experience at Reading Station today when I was meeting a friend (who'd left home in Slovakia at 0130  carrying a heavy case). I asked at the ticket office if I could buy a platform ticket (the last time I did so was at Torquay Station c1960 for 1d). No need, I was told, just explain at the gate and they'll let you through. Only my friend, who hasn't been to England in four years, took a Crossrail train, rather than a non-stopper. From the deck, I didn't see her get off what I thought might be her train and had previously texted her to wait for me INSIDE the ticket gates. Only she found her way to the Heathrow coach office to book a ticket for a journey later on. (Only it was closed ...) I approached the gates with no luggage-heavy friend and with trepidation, but the official (who I think might have been a supervisor) let me though immediately after I'd stuttered a few works of explanation.

[ChrisB]

No objection to the increased penalty provided that this is applied fairly.
I have witnessed more than one case of penalty fares being applied unreasonably.

Passengers with tickets valid on booked train only.
They boarded a train at the correct time, as stated on the tickets.
In fact it was an earlier train running late and penalty fares were charged.
Some passengers paid up. Others said that they would "deal with" those demanding extra payment.

Are you sure they weren't being charged an excess rather than a penalty fare - the latter I understand can't be charged where a ticket is held for the journey in question but at the wrong rate. Only excesses in that case.

[CyclingSid]

Is there a convenient definition and general guidance on excess fares.

Finally managed to get one from a Southern train the other weekend (£0.00), rather than just being charged for the leg of the journey.

[ChrisB]

I would suggest staeting a new topic on that.

[ChrisB]

Be warned - there *are* differences in the new Penalty Fare over the old one!

see attached photo of the warning poster that has gone up over the last week or so - this was at Oxford....

Under the conditions (over on the right, towards the bottom) where you can be charged, the last one has been amended to add "....or on a train service where your ticket is not valid" - so no good buying off-peak ticket & asking for an excess if you get challenged, for example. You have to excess before boarding now or be liable.

Also, note right at the bottom - XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) and TfW services are excluded from the scheme.

[Oxonhutch]

Does that conflict with the National Conditions of Travel [sic] ?

[ChrisB]

Presumably they'll also be amended to ensure they don't

[CyclingSid]

How do you buy an excess at an unmanned station, without a smartphone (assuming you can buy one with a smartphone). Or do I risk putting one foot on the train and ask the Guard/TM^‡(resolve) for an excess?

Sorry but my cycle trips don't always run to the smooth pre-planning expected by the railway owners/operators.

[ChrisB]

The buy at first opportunity rule still aoplies i think

[grahame]

How do you buy an excess at an unmanned station, without a smartphone (assuming you can buy one with a smartphone). Or do I risk putting one foot on the train and ask the Guard/TM^‡(resolve) for an excess?

Sorry but my cycle trips don't always run to the smooth pre-planning expected by the railway owners/operators.

The buy at first opportunity rule still aoplies i think

I would think so.  My standard practice and advice for passengers cannot buy the ticket they want at the station is to tell the train manager on the platform and ask if he will sell them a ticket. (And that could be modified to "I cannot excess it at the machine).  I doubt you would have a problem.   Do not board the train without comment and go straight into the loo if you do not have a ticket!