Penalty Fares

[whole diary]

[grahame]

There are new 'Penalty Fares Rules'?

I thought the rules* as set by the defunct Strategic Rail Authority (and now overseen by the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)) were the ones still in force.

Is there a link to this 'new more detailed rule book'?

Link to download is at https://www.gwr.com/your-journey/tickets-railcards-and-season-tickets/revenue-protection-policy

Document dated 13th April 2016 (so fairly new) and more on it than the page that links to it (so more detailed) ... I wouldn't pretend to know how it compares with past / previous versions

[JayMac]

That's just GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s revenue protection policy..

As far as I'm aware there has been no change to the overarching Penalty Fares rules as set by the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about), nor the legislation that backs up those rules.

I've also not yet found any reference to GWR making the necessary legally required requests to add to or amend their existing Penalty Fares schemes.

[stuving]

That's just GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s revenue protection policy..

As far as I'm aware there has been no change to the overarching Penalty Fares rules as set by the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about), nor the legislation that backs up those rules.

I've also not yet found any reference to GWR making the necessary legally required requests to add to or amend their existing Penalty Fares schemes.

I couldn't see any mention of public notices in the SRA^» (Strategic Rail Authority - about)'s version of the approval regime. The relevant bits (heavily edited) were:

3.2
Any train operator who wants to introduce a penalty fares scheme must do the following.
a    Send a notice, at least three months before the date on which it is proposed to begin
charging penalty fares, to:
i     the     SRA;
ii    the Rail Passengers Committee for any area in which the proposed scheme will apply;
and
iii   the relevant Passenger Transport Executive, if an operator wants a train service which
is sponsored by a Passenger Transport Executive, or which passes through an area
covered by a Passenger Transport Executive, to become a penalty fares train.
...
3.3
The SRA will consider the proposed scheme, taking account of all relevant matters including
the policy set out in the SRA penalty fares policy statement. The SRA may, after consulting
any Rail Passengers Committee and Passenger Transport Executive referred to in rule 3.2,
approve or reject the proposed scheme, giving notice to the operator in writing. The SRA will
send a copy of this notice to everyone who received a copy of the notice referred to in rule 3.2.
3.4
If  the  SRA  approves  the  proposed  scheme,  the  operator  must  arrange  for  notices  to  be
displayed in clearly visible positions at each station which is to become a penalty fares station,
advising passengers that a penalty fares scheme is to be introduced. These notices must be
displayed for at least three weeks before the scheme is introduced, and must be in line with
rule 4.3.

AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know) the SRA's role has reverted to DfT, and the Rail Passengers Committees have been replaced and renamed more than once to become Transport Focus, but has the process changed?

[ellendune]

Is there anything equivalent to penalty fares on buses?

[JayMac]

The process for setting up, or amending, a Penalty Fares scheme hasn't changed as far as I can make out. Just some of the names of the players.

For the process to change I suspect, at the very least, an amendment to the legislation, by way of statutory instrument, would be required.

[LiskeardRich]

Heard the same announcement at Truro.
Also heard an RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) sell a ticket and then give someone words of warning of the forthcoming changes.

Not sure whether GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have taken on more RPIs or just out of luck I've encountered them more, but I've seen a lot of RPIs in Cornwall recently as well as use of manual full checks at unbarriered stations, especially st Austell.

[stuving]

For the process to change I suspect, at the very least, an amendment to the legislation, by way of statutory instrument, would be required.

That would imply that the current procedure is set out in some SI, but I don't think it is. It appears to be covered by the Secretary of State's "power by regulations to make provision..." (previously vested in the SRA^» (Strategic Rail Authority - about)) in s130 of the Railways Act 1993 (as amended). The regulations applying to passengers have to be put in an SI, but I don't think the process for applying those rules to particular areas does. Which is odd, really.

[ellendune]

For the process to change I suspect, at the very least, an amendment to the legislation, by way of statutory instrument, would be required.

That would imply that the current procedure is set out in some SI, but I don't think it is. It appears to be covered by the Secretary of State's "power by regulations to make provision..." (previously vested in the SRA^» (Strategic Rail Authority - about)) in s130 of the Railways Act 1993 (as amended). The regulations applying to passengers have to be put in an SI, but I don't think the process for applying those rules to particular areas does. Which is odd, really.

The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 1994 (specifically Reg 11) provide for the SRA to make rules covering this matter. The SRA's rules which I assume are still in force are as Stuving set out earlier.  Any change to an operators scheme must be subject to consultation.  That includes which stations are included. 

Edited to add more detail

[Henry]

 From what I understand, Ticket Examiner's are now qualified to administer penalty fares.
 Listening to the announcements at Totnes, which I presume are the same at most stations,
 There is no change to the policy, ''buy a ticket before you board, unless facilities are not available''.
 
 Unfortunately, like many other stations, Totnes has the situation of being a busy station, poor ticket office
 opening hours (0725-1600), and a busy ticket machine.
 So in my case, allow plenty of time to buy my ticket then using the excellent facilities at 'The Signal Box Cafe'.

[ChrisB]

I can't remotely access that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) attachment from my phone - is there anything in that pdf file that doesn't agree with the current PF^▸ (Penalty Fare) rules?

In other words, are they purely saying that PF rules that are current will be applied more thoroughly from May 23?

[ChrisB]

Hdney's post sbove may back up my thoughts - that there are more qualified to issue PF^▸ (Penalty Fare) folk on the netwofk & they've been instructed to operate PF where its possible. Therefore those without tickets are motlre likely to be caught...hence the warning

[stuving]

I can't remotely access that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) attachment from my phone - is there anything in that pdf file that doesn't agree with the current PF^▸ (Penalty Fare) rules?

In other words, are they purely saying that PF rules that are current will be applied more thoroughly from May 23?

I don't think there is any change in the rules. I understood the reported announcement to be about the extent of the penalty fares area.

The second GWR download (Buy before you board) has this right at the start:

If you board any of our trains without a valid ticket, at a station where ticket buying facilities are available, you may be charged the full Single or Return fare relevant to your journey, be reported for prosecution, or receive a Penalty Fare if travelling from a station within the Penalty Fares Zones (see maps overleaf).

There are three maps (at the end of the online version) with a key that says:
[grey blob]  This station is in the Penalty Fares scheme
[green blob] This station is not in the Penalty Fares scheme
[grey line]   This is not a penalty fares line

There are also green lines, not in the key, which you'd expect to be the penalty fares lines - but for some reason are not defined. So much for the requirement "Operators must make sure that if these stations are not made penalty fares stations, this does not cause confusion or make the scheme difficult to explain to passengers." - just the daft choice of blob colours alone conflicts with that.

The maps have no heading or anything other than the key and that reference in the text to say what they are - so they do not provide information about where the penalty fares area is or isn't. Which makes it hard to interpret what extending its boundaries would mean.

The green lines, whatever they are, cover Paddington to Oxford and Westbury and all branches including to Guildford and Basingstoke, Cheltenham to Tiverton and Bristol TM^‡(resolve) to Swindon and Westbury, plus Exmouth to Truro and Paignton but no other branches. Yes, there are gaps in that - Didcot to Swindon, and Tiverton to Exeter SD.

[JayMac]

My point remains that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) are telling a terminological inexactitude. "From May 23rd Penalty fares will apply to the whole network"

Except they can't and won't.

[Ollie]

I've been told the announcement says:

"From the 23rd of May 2016 Penalty Fares will apply across the entire Great Western Railway network.
Please ensure you buy your ticket before you board, where facilities are available.
For more information please visit GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway).com/revenueprotection"

[ChrisB]

But as everyone is commenting Ollie, that is incorrect & untrue