1903 Paddington - Plymouth 24th March

[whole diary]

[simonw]

After my experience four weeks ago getting the Swansea bound train, 1915/Friday, I can sympathise.

The issue has to be addressed by GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)/Paddington.

The options are allow 50-100 saver plus ticket holders on earlier trains if space is available.

Limit boarding of the train and ignore reservation tickets. If you can't get to the station at time of boarding should the train staff keep a reservation on an overcrowded train? I have been on loads of trains when reserved seats have been empty because people do not turn up.

Add extra train 15 minutes later.

[broadgage]

I do believe pax mostly have brains & they can always choose to travel on different services?

Why should an operator do the thinking for pax? Extremely few of those travellers will be first time travellers over busy periods & thus chose freely to board that service. I do have some sympathy for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) in this instance.

If pax can't be arsed to reserve in advance, why should GWR force them to?

Some customers cant "choose to travel on different services" because they have advance tickets that are valid on the booked train only and would face a huge "fine" for use of an alternative service.

Not certain how reserving in advance would help ?  I tried that on the 18-03 on a Maundy Thursday a few years ago ! My booked seat was occupied by someone else who simply refused to move, a regular problem on grossly overcrowded services. The train staff felt unable to intervene, so being reluctant to give the usurper a thump I had to stand to Taunton. Never again !

[ellendune]

The options are allow 50-100 saver plus ticket holders on earlier trains if space is available.

That would be extremely difficult to enforce. Effectively you would be saying that saver tickets are valid on earlier trains. Result make aearlier trains even worse.

Limit boarding of the train

Limit the boarding of the train if you can. I am not sure how easy it would be if there are two trains boarding on opposite platforms.  

and ignore reservation tickets. If you can't get to the station at time of boarding should the train staff keep a reservation on an overcrowded train? I have been on loads of trains when reserved seats have been empty because people do not turn up.

No that is the last thing to do.  Stop on-line sales automatically giving reservations with anything but advance fares unless requested. The problem is people who have already travelled.

I see a possibility for an electronic solution in another age, where the use of (an electronic) ticket on an earlier train would cancel the later reservation.  

Add extra train 15 minutes later.

On this occasion that is what they did, but people always want to catch the first train they can.  

More practical (perhaps) solutions:

1) Make these trains reservation only.
2) Make the first train (rather than the relief) not stop at Reading as the relief train can cater for these passengers.

[grahame]

1) Make these trains reservation only.

<advocate mode="devil">But doesn't that limit a train with 500 seats to 500 passengers rather than allowing a reasonable level of standing?  And with reservations being available free of charge and with a significant proportion not being taken up, might you not find that the actual number of passengers carried was more like 350 even if it was fully reserved?</advocate>

[broadgage]

As improved capacity is still the usual "few years" away, it seems that all that can be done is to manage demand, or put bluntly price people off busy trains.
I am not convinced that ANY discounted advance tickets should be sold for services that are going to be overcrowded. I thought that the purpose of selling heavily discounted advance tickets was to fill seats that would otherwise go unused ? and not to make an already overcrowded train even worse ?

[Timmer]

It was a similar story on the East Coast line both on Thursday and yesterday with services very heavily loaded. I'm sure other lines out of London would have been the same. So many wanting to travel long distance at the same time with little/no spare capacity to bring out at times such as Easter. It's the same every year.

[old original]

I think made slightly worse by the early Easter as near all schools and colleges broke up on Thursday and most people want to get to where they're going by the weekend. If Easter weekend falls in the middle of the holiday period, people could vary their travel dates a bit more so perhaps the idea in the news this morning about fixing Easter could be beneficial, in this case....

[plymothian]

Not necessarily so as Maundy Thursday is the busiest travel day of the year across all modes of transport, regardless of whether it falls within/at the start/near the end of the Easter school holidays.  This has been known and publicised for years.

[TaplowGreen]

As improved capacity is still the usual "few years" away, it seems that all that can be done is to manage demand, or put bluntly price people off busy trains.
I am not convinced that ANY discounted advance tickets should be sold for services that are going to be overcrowded. I thought that the purpose of selling heavily discounted advance tickets was to fill seats that would otherwise go unused ? and not to make an already overcrowded train even worse ?

I don't disagree - although it won't go down well, especially after the much heralded stripping out of First class -it'd be interesting to know how many "cheap" tickets were sold as a proportion on the trains which were always going to be overcrowded on Thursday (and yesterday was no better it would seem in terms of severe overcrowding)

That needs to be added to additional measures such as more proactive boarding management from GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) when things are obviously starting to get silly - we need to move the attitude of shrugging the shoulders and saying "It's Easter/Summer/Christmas/major sporting event" etc etc, all of which are generally fixed in the calendar year after year - really it's just about planning.

In that way, GWR might not get caught with their pants down quite so much.

Out of interest, taking London - Plymouth as an example, given a similar service pattern, how many seats will be added by the new trains?

[a-driver]

It was a similar story on the East Coast line both on Thursday and yesterday with services very heavily loaded. I'm sure other lines out of London would have been the same. So many wanting to travel long distance at the same time with little/no spare capacity to bring out at times such as Easter. It's the same every year.

Exactly, these were pictures I found on social media of Virgin East Coast and West Coast services so it's not a problem confined to just GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway).  It all goes back to the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) who haven't got a strategy to cope with growth

[TaplowGreen]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the problem is confined to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) - but it would be interesting to know if they have a strategy to cope with severe overcrowding, other than just letting more and more people pile on?

[a-driver]

I would say from those pictures the answer would be no!!  Although having said that I've heard the Pendolinos on the West Coast have a weight limit on them whereby the brakes will not release if that limit is exceeded. If that's true I suppose it could relate to the tilt mechanism.
Passengers have put themselves on those trains, how many would willingly leave it though if asked??

[TaplowGreen]

I would say from those pictures the answer would be no!!  Although having said that I've heard the Pendolinos on the West Coast have a weight limit on them whereby the brakes will not release if that limit is exceeded. If that's true I suppose it could relate to the tilt mechanism.
Passengers have put themselves on those trains, how many would willingly leave it though if asked??

......exactly - which proves that prevention is always better than cure - hence the discussion above re: demand/boarding management.

[a-driver]

I would say from those pictures the answer would be no!!  Although having said that I've heard the Pendolinos on the West Coast have a weight limit on them whereby the brakes will not release if that limit is exceeded. If that's true I suppose it could relate to the tilt mechanism.
Passengers have put themselves on those trains, how many would willingly leave it though if asked??

......exactly - which proves that prevention is always better than cure - hence the discussion above re: demand/boarding management.

But would it?  Once passengers become aware that there will be boarding limits boarding a train itself will become dangerous, a survival of the fittest.  The surge at Euston when boarding is announced is frightening.  VT^▸ (Virgin Trains - former franchises) will wait until the train is full and then ask passengers to leave the service.

[TaplowGreen]

I would say from those pictures the answer would be no!!  Although having said that I've heard the Pendolinos on the West Coast have a weight limit on them whereby the brakes will not release if that limit is exceeded. If that's true I suppose it could relate to the tilt mechanism.
Passengers have put themselves on those trains, how many would willingly leave it though if asked??

......exactly - which proves that prevention is always better than cure - hence the discussion above re: demand/boarding management.

But would it?  Once passengers become aware that there will be boarding limits boarding a train itself will become dangerous, a survival of the fittest.  The surge at Euston when boarding is announced is frightening.  VT^▸ (Virgin Trains - former franchises) will wait until the train is full and then ask passengers to leave the service.

OK we're at cross purposes - this thread primarily concerns GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) through Paddington.........however the situation you describe sounds even worse!