Bicycles on trains - new policy from May?

[whole diary]

[Bmblbzzz]

The main problem is not that it's difficult to find out which trains are HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) but that you have to know in advance that you need to find out.

[IndustryInsider]

I have a friend of a friend who has to pedal like fury to make the evening 'halts' Class 180 train with his bike, nine times out of ten he just makes it, but if not has to get the following Hereford HST^▸ (High Speed Train).  That's the sort of person who will be inconvenienced by the new policy if it is fully enforced.

[grahame]

I have a friend of a friend who has to pedal like fury to make the evening 'halts' Class 180 train with his bike, nine times out of ten he just makes it, but if not has to get the following Hereford HST^▸ (High Speed Train).  That's the sort of person who will be inconvenienced by the new policy if it is fully enforced.

[advocate mode=devil]Isn't there an encouragement for regular travellers to keep a bicycle at both ends of their journey rather than use up limited full size cycle spaces too frequently?[/advocate]

[ChrisB]

Or simply get a folder?

[IndustryInsider]

[advocate mode=devil]Isn't there an encouragement for regular travellers to keep a bicycle at both ends of their journey rather than use up limited full size cycle spaces too frequently?[/advocate]

Or simply get a folder?

Yep, both possible options.  Though both an inconvenience as it adds cost/time to a journey.  That 9 out of 10 would probably drop a bit if he had to park his 'work end' bike up at the station, and a decent folding bike is fairly expensive.

I think this policy is definitely designed to try and put as many people off of travelling with a bicycle as possible, without it seemingly looking like that's the case.  I can certainly appreciate how that could be seen as both a good or bad thing depending on your opinion of cyclists, but it will certainly cause Train Manager's some issues and isn't very customer friendly on quieter services where a reservation is never likely to be necessary.

[Bmblbzzz]

It might depend on your opinion of cyclists... or it might depend on your opinion of space utilisation on trains. Or the number, frequency and size of trains.

[The Tall Controller]

I have a friend of a friend who has to pedal like fury to make the evening 'halts' Class 180 train with his bike, nine times out of ten he just makes it, but if not has to get the following Hereford HST^▸ (High Speed Train).  That's the sort of person who will be inconvenienced by the new policy if it is fully enforced.

This shouldn't make any difference as the Hereford HST is already a 'reservations compulsory' service.

[Richard Fairhurst]

In practice, though, the peak down HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) are very rarely full of bikes beyond Oxford, and never beyond Charlbury. I've never known reservations to be insisted on west of Oxford, and rightly so: the train manager and despatch staff have better things to do than delay departure, onto a single-line railway, while reservations are checked before loading a bike onto a service which isn't full anyway.

[ellendune]

A bike at both ends is definitely the norm in Netherlands.  I do not know if NS charge for bikes, but they don't carry many even though there are spaces on trains.

Rather than seeing this policy being about discouraging cyclists perhaps it should be seen as an incentive to have a bike at both ends. 

[IndustryInsider]

In practice, though, the peak down HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) are very rarely full of bikes beyond Oxford, and never beyond Charlbury. I've never known reservations to be insisted on west of Oxford, and rightly so: the train manager and despatch staff have better things to do than delay departure, onto a single-line railway, while reservations are checked before loading a bike onto a service which isn't full anyway.

That's part of the problem.  I can see the new policy not being properly enforced, and when it is enforced just causing arguments and delays.

[Worcester_Passenger]

A bike at both ends is definitely the norm in Netherlands.  I do not know if NS charge for bikes, but they don't carry many even though there are spaces on trains.

I'd always assumed that NS didn't carry non-folding bikes.

[TaplowGreen]

In practice, though, the peak down HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) are very rarely full of bikes beyond Oxford, and never beyond Charlbury. I've never known reservations to be insisted on west of Oxford, and rightly so: the train manager and despatch staff have better things to do than delay departure, onto a single-line railway, while reservations are checked before loading a bike onto a service which isn't full anyway.

That's part of the problem.  I can see the new policy not being properly enforced, and when it is enforced just causing arguments and delays.

That's pretty much what happens now when people try to get full size bikes onto LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) peak Turbo services (from which they are supposed to be banned) if there are any platform staff around they generally look the other way to avoid aforementioned arguments/delays.

[grahame]

A bike at both ends is definitely the norm in Netherlands.  I do not know if NS charge for bikes, but they don't carry many even though there are spaces on trains.

I'd always assumed that NS didn't carry non-folding bikes.

From Holland-Cycling:

Taking your bicycle on the train
You are allowed take your bicycle on Dutch national trains outside rush hour. The prohibited times are between 6.30 and 9 a.m. and between 4.30 and 6 p.m. on workdays. This restriction does not apply in the weekend, on national holidays or in July and August.

You will need to purchase a special Bicycle Day Ticket. Folding bikes - as long as they are folded - are considered luggage and can be taken free of charge any time of the day.

You are expected to place your bicycle in the special bike areas. There are stickers on the train to show you where they are. If the bike areas are full, you might be asked to wait for the next train. All bicycles are allowed, even a recumbent or a tandem. It is prohibited to take a tricycle or a bike trailer on the train.

Tips for taking your bicycle on the train
Lock your bicycle.
Make sure your bike can't fall when the train rocks from side to side.
Don't block the doors or passageways.
Remove your luggage.

Exceptions to the rules:
If you have an international train ticket for yourself and your bike, you are permitted to take your bicycle on Dutch national trains during rush hour.
In the weekend you can take your bicycle free of charge on the trains of Arriva in the Achterhoek Rivierenland in the east of Holland.
You can't take your tandem or recumbent on the trains of Arriva.

[ellendune]

Thank you for that information Grahame.  Given that Netherlands is perhaps Europe's biggest cycling nation, I suggest railways put most of their investment in provision of secure cycle storage at all stations (i.e. both ends). 

[grahame]

Interested in the Dutch metrics, I read further - a day ticket for a bicycle costs 6.10 Euros (2016 price) and for a dog costs 3.10 Euros. See here.  Perhaps that's the right balance between persuading commuters to have a cycle at each end, and yet making it practical to get the cycles where they want in the first place, and allowing for occasional excursions with cycles?