Bristol: A stupid city?

[whole diary]

[simonw]

The roads in South Gloucestershire have been gridlocked for the past 10 years, adding an Arena to the mix will not make it worse.

If SGC are serious, they will campaign for Henbury Loop, extra rail stations, park and ride stops by stations with frequent services, integrated bus and rail services and ticketing.

Also, if they want to do something radical, run a FREE bus from BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI))-CENTRE-UWE-BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains)-AZTECH WEST-CRIBBS. It will cost a lot, but a free regular service adding all these busy areas will encourage people not to drive 

[martyjon]

The roads in South Gloucestershire have been gridlocked for the past 10 years, adding an Arena to the mix will not make it worse.

WHAT !!!! I've been retired 24 years and they were gridlocked then and for most of the 27 years I worked at Patchway.

[grahame]

Also, if they want to do something radical, run a FREE bus from BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI))-CENTRE-UWE-BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains)-AZTECH WEST-CRIBBS. It will cost a lot, but a free regular service adding all these busy areas will encourage people not to drive 

As a resident of elsewhere who occasionally has to fight his way in and out of some of these places, I would really find my life easier if ...
1. Trains from BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) called at AZW twice an hour or more
2. Local trains from BRI were run to Filton Abbey Wood, left turn onto the Henbury line, then right onto about a mile of new track across the old runway to terminate at Cribb's. Twice an hour would be good; maybe a quick reverse of Bristol Parkway terminators across to Cribbs if there remain capacity issues?
3. That free shuttle bus Parkway - UWE - station entrance at Filton Abbey Wood.

I guess my desires / needs are very occasional, very specialist, and no business case to be made?

[Bmblbzzz]

I'm not sure trains to Cribbs would be compatible with the ethos of the place!

[TonyK]

I'm not sure trains to Cribbs would be compatible with the ethos of the place!

Probably not, although there is plenty of room in those car parks to make the switch. Cribbs is for me and many others a symbol of division between Bristol and South Gloucestershire councils, and a totem to the loss of the tram network we so badly needed. It is now likely to become also an icon on the altar to be constructed in memory of the Arenal.

We needed a shot in the arm. We got a shot in the foot, and the threat of a shot in the head. That's not just me having a shot in the dark.

[simonw]

If you live in SGC, and 300K people do, Cribbs Causeway is essential.

Thirty years ago Bristol failed to address traffic, parking and shopping issues that severely impacted the new and established areas of SGC. This failure created the Mall@Cribbs and further complicated the traffic issues in the Northern Fringe.

If Bristol CC had encouraged and help fund the Avon Metro envisaged, then it is unlikely Cribbs Causeway would exist as a retail hotspot as now.

[Oberon]

If the Arena is relocated to the Brabazon hangar would it be possible to lay some tram track from it to somewhere close on the national network and utilise the tram-train principle to move people to/from it to the city centre. Or is this not a practical idea?

[Red Squirrel]

If you live in SGC, and 300K people do, Cribbs Causeway is essential.

Thirty years ago Bristol failed to address traffic, parking and shopping issues that severely impacted the new and established areas of SGC. This failure created the Mall@Cribbs and further complicated the traffic issues in the Northern Fringe.

If Bristol CC had encouraged and help fund the Avon Metro envisaged, then it is unlikely Cribbs Causeway would exist as a retail hotspot as now.

I find myself surprised that there are as many as 300,000 people (well, 277,600 but let's not quibble) in South Glos, but that's me showing my ignorance. Of course the best part of 100,000 of them are in contiguous suburbs of Bristol, and at least another 50,000 are in purpose-built satellite towns of Bristol.

Whether Cribbs is essential or not is a moot point. It is certainly profitable, which for some is the only measure that matters, and it presumably raises a decent amount in rates for South Glos. I'm not sure what Bristol had to do with this though. The squabble over the routing of the Avon Metro came after Cribbs was built, because Bristol was concerned that Broadmead would be killed off if it was easier to get to Cribbs.

What would you have had Bristol, then a district within Avon, do about all this 30 years ago? And what has this got to do with the Rees/Abraham BrabArena?

[simonw]

Ah, when I moved to Bradley Stoke, in 1989, land was set aside for a large district centre, the Avon Metro and a metro station located at the top of Bradley Stoke Way, adjacent to Aztech West roundabout.

At this point the Cribbs Causeway was just a motorway junction on the M5 with a Carrefour store.

The Avon Metro scheme folded a few years later, and the Cribbs Causeway Retail project was initiated at the same time, to open in 1998.

To me the failure of the Avon Metro, possibly related to Avon Councils demise and Bristol City Council being opposed to the funding model, lead to the inevitable development of a major local centre.

[Bmblbzzz]

I don't think the Bristol v South Glos split can be blamed or thanked for the existence of Cribbs Causeway. Every city and large town has an out of town shopping destination nowadays. And even some not so large ones, like Street. They don't appeal to me but they clearly do to a lot of people.

[johnneyw]

If the Arena is relocated to the Brabazon hangar would it be possible to lay some tram track from it to somewhere close on the national network and utilise the tram-train principle to move people to/from it to the city centre. Or is this not a practical idea?

The Brabazon shed is very close to the Henbury Loop, right next to it practically. You would only need a station to be built there once/if passenger services return.

[Red Squirrel]

The Brabazon shed is very close to the Henbury Loop, right next to it practically. You would only need a station to be built there once/if passenger services return.

That's a very big 'only'... the Porkway Part and Ride was built right next to the Severn Riviera line in 2002, but Parkway Punkway station is still in the grip of GRIP^▸ (Guide to Railway Investment Projects) fifteen years later.

All this is just a bad joke. George Ferguson's reign was short and sweet, but an aberration. Marv wants to kill off the Arena because it was George's idea, and he'll probably succeed. If he can use a willing Tory tool to help in this process, he'll be happy to do so.  Bristol and Greater Bristol politics are back on their usual path of petty rivalries and mutual self-destruction; new Avon mayor Peter Bowles is so far showing little inclination to do anything other than continue turning South Glos into a vision of Los Angeles in the 1950s... Pah!

[simonw]

It is obvious than an Arena should be in the centre of Bristol, but Bristol desire to save money will probably see

• small concert and performance art centre near Temple Meads
• Bristol arena to be built in Filton
• transport upgrading of Henbury Loop and not Henbury Spur, plus new stations

and this will be a lot less than £125M.

[Red Squirrel]

Except that:

1. Who or what is this 'Bristol' that wishes to save money? Maybe we should put the whole Arena topic to a referendum? Actually maybe not; we'd end up having to to call it Arena-y Mc Arenaface, and being tied to having it staffed by 7 space faeries, all called David.
2. We may, just possibly, get a small concert and performance art centre near Temple Meads. And if so, there's a good chance it may be called the Cattle Market Tavern.
3. The BrabArena won't happen. Bristol would never fund something that would largely benefit those utter non-Bristolians who live in Patchway and Bradley Stoke.
4. I reckon I have another 20 or 30 years if I'm lucky. I doubt I'll live to see the Henbury Loop.

[Western Pathfinder]

Good god we aren't going to have to put up with you for that long are we ?  .