Triangular train tickets (A-B, B-C, C-A)

[whole diary]

[Surrey 455]

Hadn't realised how expensive tickets are if you're not doing a straight forward return. My journey today was from Leatherhead to Amberley to Brighton to Leatherhead which cost in total ^27.05 with an annual gold card and Brighton plusbus. This was 3 single tickets costing ^8.80, ^7.05, ^8.80 with plusbus being an extra ^2.40.  A simple return from Leatherhead to Brighton would only have cost ^8.85. Why is there so much difference in price? It's not as if today's journey was 3 times longer.

[paul7575]

What you normally need to do for a 'triangle' rather than buying three singles is to try and find a destination somewhere (in your case between Amberley and Brighton) which allows you to travel in either direction, and use the break of journey facility.

So you break your outward journey at Amberley and get back on towards <somewhere along the south coast> where your train needs to call, but carry on through there switching from outward to return portion of the fare, and then break the return journey at Brighton.

Does that make sense?   Try a journey planner for places such as Worthing, and see which way you are allowed to go.   A quick check just now shows routes via Horsham and Ford to Worthing, or via Clapham Junction and Brighton to Worthing, with various prices well below your total. 

As far as I can see your ^8.85 is "route Horsham" to Brighton, so maybe you'd have to go through Amberley both ways, or can you go Brighton > Three Bridges > Horsham?  Then there's a higher fare at ^17.75 that allows travel NOT via London, so via Clapham Junction.   

There's some ideas anyway, and then there's maybe a Southern day rover of some sort if you can buy in advance?

Going back to 'why?' isn't it simply that singles are not usually ever half the price of off peak returns?

Paul

[ChrisB]

Indeed, in my experience, they can just be 10p dearer than the single.

[JayMac]

If there's a next time come here first with the query. 

A quick look at the geography and the routeing guide and I can see all that is needed is a ticket from Leatherhead to Hove. ^8.85 for the Off Peak Day Return (not via Clapham J) with your Gold Card. This ticket is valid outward to Amberley via Horsham, break your journey there, then continue later on the outward portion to Ford. Change there for Brighton via Hove. At Hove you switch over from your outward portion to your return portion. No need to alight, go straight on to Brighton. There you break your return journey. Then you can continue that return journey from Brighton on the main line to Three Bridges for Leatherhead via Horsham, or Gatwick Airport for Leatherhead via Dorking Deepdene and a walk to Dorking.

[Worcester_Passenger]

Back in the mists of time (over 20 years ago), there used to be a ticket called a "Circular Saver". You priced this by adding up the prices for the Saver Return A-B, B-C and C-A, and then dividing by two. Presumably there was also a "Circular Ordinary" or similar without any time restrictions. But in my travelling I only ever ended up with the Saver version.

They had to be written out by hand. That probably accounted for their demise - though I'm sure I was told that they were "too complicated".

My best one was from Worcester to Llandudno Junction. The routing instructions were "Out direct. Return via Newcastle upon Tyne and Hull".

[Oxonhutch]

A quick look at the geography and the routeing guide and I can see all that is needed is a ticket from Leatherhead to Hove. ^8.85 for the Off Peak Day Return (not via Clapham J) with your Gold Card.

I thought that with an off-peak ticket, one can break the journey on the return leg but not the outward leg - or is that just the period, rather than day return?  With anytime tickets, one can break the journey anywhere en route - outward or return.

[JayMac]

Break of journey is always allowed on the return portion of tickets, be they Anytime, Anytime Day, Off Peak, Off Peak Day, Super Off Peak, Super Off Peak Day, Outboundary One Day Travelcard.

One the outward journey, break of journey is allowed on the Anytime products and the majority of flows with the other products. The restriction code relevant to the ticket held should be checked to see whether it is one of the minority of flows that bar break of journey on the outward portion.

In the case of the ticket I suggested for the OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter)'s itinerary (Leatherhead-Hove Off Peak Day Return (not via Clapham J)) the restriction code is B1. No prohibition on outward break of journey on that one. http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/B1   

[Red Squirrel]

This has piqued my interest - I have long thought it might be fun to do a BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) - GCR^» (Gloucester - next trains)/CNM^» (Cheltenham Spa - next trains) - SWI^» (Swindon - next trains) - BRI trip, but just assumed the fares would render it too rich for my blood; but it looks like it can be done with a ^16.40 offpeak return to KEM - am I right?

Looking at http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk I see that I can set a 'via' station, but that applies to both legs. Really I'd like to be able to say I'm going to KEM, out via GCR/CNM, return via SWI. Is there some other online tool that'll let me plan in this way, or do I need to resort to Bradshaw's and a quill pen?

I guess this is Trackbashing 101, but everyone has to start somewhere...

[ChrisB]

I think you need to refer (and understand, it's not easy/simple!) to the routing guide, to ascertain whether a journey can be made via the obvious change(s). I don;'t - so you'll need to await someone wiser than I that does understand it.

Personally, you may very well be able to go both via GCR^» (Gloucester - next trains) & SWI^» (Swindon - next trains), but I very much doubt you can reach CNM^» (Cheltenham Spa - next trains), simply because you can *very* rarely double back GCR-CNM-GCR in this case.)

[bobm]

I too find reading the maps a bit of an art.

However looking at GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) mixing desk it seems the ^16.40 off peak return is valid on the 20:00 from Temple Meads to Gloucester and then on the 21:21 to Kemble and on trains from Kemble via Swindon back to Bristol all day.

[ChrisB]

Yes, I reckon both ways is OK, apart from not being able to reach CNM^» (Cheltenham Spa - next trains) on the same ticket.

[JayMac]

This has piqued my interest - I have long thought it might be fun to do a BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) - GCR^» (Gloucester - next trains)/CNM^» (Cheltenham Spa - next trains) - SWI^» (Swindon - next trains) - BRI trip, but just assumed the fares would render it too rich for my blood; but it looks like it can be done with a ^16.40 offpeak return to KEM - am I right?

Looking at http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk I see that I can set a 'via' station, but that applies to both legs. Really I'd like to be able to say I'm going to KEM, out via GCR/CNM, return via SWI. Is there some other online tool that'll let me plan in this way, or do I need to resort to Bradshaw's and a quill pen?

I guess this is Trackbashing 101, but everyone has to start somewhere...

Bristol to Kemble is valid via either Gloucester or Swindon. It's a triangular journey I've done a few times myself with multiple breaks of journey on the one return ticket. You can also go as far as Cheltenham Spa too, as their are easements allowing such, due to just one fast train between Cheltenham and Bristol calling at Gloucester.

[JayMac]

I too find reading the maps a bit of an art.

The Routeing Guide and its maps are indeed an art. A dark art.

[Bmblbzzz]

Way back in the 20th century I used to travel regularly between Stroud and Bristol. I remember that both routes, Swindon and Gloucester, were possible, but via Swindon always cost a bit more. Then again, the connections were quite a bit better. But that was in the days of BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) (and not actually Kemble).

[JayMac]

Yes. If your 'destination' from Bristol is Stroud or Stonehouse on the Golden Valley Line then there are two fare routeings. 'via Gloucester' and 'Any Permitted'. The 'Any Permitted' would permit a circular journey as it is. You can however buy the 'via Gloucester' and excess the return portion up to the 'Any Permitted' for half the difference in fares.

Take it from me though. The cheapest way to do a triangular journey BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)-CNM^» (Cheltenham Spa - next trains)/GCR^» (Gloucester - next trains)-Golden Valley-SWI^» (Swindon - next trains)-BRI is to buy the ticket to Kemble. Kemble only has 'Any Permitted' fares.