Well would you believe it??

[whole diary]

[Shazz]

Yup WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) do have direct control over the trains in Wales, which is why we have hoovered up a reasonable amount of units recently. However, this has been at the expense of the EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (ex-Wessex). I bet we are seeing a WAG versus DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) altercation regarding stock allocation.

Daniel

...and the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) failing miserably.

The WAG arn't going to release any units to anyone, even if it's costing them money to have them in storage before platform alteratiuons finish to the valleys. As they know damn well how important the railways are for wales.

well shazz come april/may time you are going to be very surprised then because fgw ARE taking 5 150 2's off atw as they cannot afford to keep em on and that is from a VERY GOOD source who happens to know the comings and goings.
but if you still do not believe it just wait a few months and you will see those crappy green/cream units with fgw splattered down the side of them.

You seem to be missing the point, the WAG subsidise the lease cost on quite a majority of units, specifically the 10 new 150's we got a few months back. SO it's costing the WAG a small nominal fee to keep these units, even if they're not in traffic, they have allocations for the very near future across the AW area. I'm 99% certain the WAG won't be letting any units go.

The WAG may well be powerfull, BUT THE UNITS ARE OWNED BY THE ROSCOS! so ultimately it's up to the ROSCO^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about)'s!

I know, but given the choice of loosing the units, or keeping them at cost, i'm 99% certain the WAG would offset the cost. As i believe they have done in the past.

[Lee]

What's wrong with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) getting some of the 142s which are in store if they are short of stock??

Unless you count the unit being used for spares recovery, there are no Class 142 units currently in storage.

[r james]

I thought Northern has put some Pacers into store?

[Conner]

I thought Northern has put some Pacers into store?

They did.
We took some and the rest had to go back as they had less 158's coming than they originally thought.

[r james]

I know, but given the choice of loosing the units, or keeping them at cost, i'm 99% certain the WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) would offset the cost. As i believe they have done in the past.

Exactly, this is why I am surprised that this hasn't happened!  Maybe it still will if nothing is signed?!?!  Ok, we can but dream on! 

[DanielP]

No reply from Arriva yet! I guess they are just a "passenger" in all this!

Daniel

[devon_metro]

I suspect ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) wont be happy with more 142s, as they are a nightmare for revenue protection, as has previously been stated,  when it comes to running them in multiple formations.   

Most of the valleys fleet is pacer operation, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) was previously not so you already have the problem wheras we are getting a new one!!

What's wrong with FGW getting some of the 142s which are in store if they are short of stock??

Or perhaps they would be better suited to the short distance valley lines journeys unless of course you travel Aberdare - Barry Island every day... 

As has already been said, the pacers have apparently been received well in their new location, so FGW should keep them.

They have far from been received well, journey times are soon to get longer, the ride is awful, they are uncomfortable, slow and driver hate them, not forgetting multiple running has no corridors. They have not been well received, simply turned out slightly better than originally thought.

As has already been suggested by myself, even if ATW receive some extra 150s from the future cascade, as FGW will not require all of the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) units. 

We can never not need units as whatever spare we have can be used to strengthen services that are very overcowded.

I still look forward to seeing the FGW pacer refurbishment! It may turn them into reasonable units internally? 

Not in the case of the 142s.

Thats the extent of the refresh

As for the 143s: new seat covers, livery, Driver Viglance installed, new marker lights, old HST^▸ (High Speed Train) seats being fitted to cabs.

[vacman]

It's all very well having this debate, but there is nothing anyone on this forum can say or do that will change anything, at the end of the day 142's are better suited to the valleys than the Devon branches, 142's have been better recieved than everyone thought, but are still far from suitable really, especially on journeys of up to 90 mins (Exmouth to Barny), especially when these services were previously run with 150's and 158's! As for the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) and LO units, there are plenty to go around, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) only need 12 of these units (the case has been put to the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) already, it's up to them now), and bear in mind most of the 3 car hybrid sets will probably be split back down to 2 cars thus creating more units.

[DanielP]

Actually, folks are mistaken that the Valley lines services are "short haul". Don't get the impression that this is a sleepy little backwaters either- the Valley Lines are more like an interurban metro commuter network and are run as such . Although many people do short "hops", the trains actually run from one end of each line and then on through Cardiff to another. So, all Rhymney Valley trains run to Penarth via Cardiff and Merthyr trains run through to Barry. Abedare services run through to Bridgend and Barry and the Chelt / Glouc services run all the way to Maesteg.

So, actually, the trains are doing serious high utlisation mileage and are rarely stationary. At the moment, I would say that the pacers aren't really fit for purpose, but at least they are there- 150s are completely ideal, except for lack of DDA^» (Disability Discrimination Act - about) compliance in the area of toilets etc.

As an example:

Rhymney to Penarth is 1hr 30.
Treherbert to Cardiff is 1hr 5.
Abedare to Bridgend via Barry is 2hrs.
Ebbw Vale to Cardiff is 1hr.

Stop frequency is high like a metro (stressing components)- the franchise manager I spoke to recently pointed out that Valley lines train frequencies through Queen St and Cardiff Central (a two track bottleneck which most services filter through) is actually higher than most London Underground services in the rush hour. Next time you are in Cardiff, step over to platform 6 and 7 and watch the show.

The only shorter routes are Coryton to Radyr (Cityline) and the short hop from Queen St to Cardiff bay. However, even here units are diagrammed so there are minimal stop times at each end.

Compare this with the Looe branch, where the 153 spends quite alot of its day sitting at Liskegard.

What we really need on the VLs are a new build of Turbostars (20m body- C3 stock can't go past Taffs Wells), low gearing for 75mph and end connections. They would be pretty much specific to the VL network. I would say electrify, but I'm sure the residents of the upper valleys would be unable to resist nicking important components!! That's not me being nasty, it is a sad fact!

If this occured, the West could have as many 150/2s and discarded pacers as it could manage!!

Daniel

Alth

[devon_metro]

But then I will come along and say we get a new order of stock for the Portsmouth - Cardiff route rated at 100mph (3 car), along with a 75mph version with corridor connections (2 car), and the Valleys can have all of the 150s and 153s it likes 

The Valleys has had a large pacer fleet for a while, whereas FGW^▸ (First Great Western) network has not so stick with what they have got is what I say. Its also silly that we arent getting any Wessex 150s back, instead Central ones which don't have door controls at each door!

[r james]

Are there any more pictures of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) refurbished pacers around???  Would be interested to know if all the nasty green panelling at the carriage ends by the drivers cab has been changed to purple.  Also, have they improved the lighting in these units, to make them less dark??

[tramway]

Also, have they improved the lighting in these units, to make them less dark??

Just keep your fingers crossed that they haven't saved the light fittings from the 150 refurb. 

[devon_metro]

Are there any more pictures of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) refurbished pacers around???  Would be interested to know if all the nasty green panelling at the carriage ends by the drivers cab has been changed to purple.  Also, have they improved the lighting in these units, to make them less dark??

No class 143s have been refurbished and won't start till the 150s are done.

[r james]

What about pics of the 142 refurb though?

[smithy]

What about pics of the 142 refurb though?

it is not a refurb on 142's just fgw stickers on outside,a heavy clean and new seat covering