Well would you believe it??

[whole diary]

[DanielP]

Interesting.

Nothing from ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) yet.
There appears to be a "tug of love" over these units.

The WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) seem to be quite a powerful force in rolling stock procurement, so we will see. I can also see why folks are being so quiet about the negotiations.

This is such a waste of time, though. If the ATW and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) fleets were part of the same thing (let's call it "Regional Railways" for sake of argument), all of the fleet requirements could probably be serviced via a common pool of units at Canton.

Ho hum....welcome to progress.

Daniel

PS vacman- never went for a ride on the top 'n tailed rake. Pity, wish I had now.

[Shazz]

Aren't ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) still having the Adelantes then?

Theres been no confirmation they're taking them, just "rumours"

Interesting.

Nothing from ATW yet.
There appears to be a "tug of love" over these units.

The WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) seem to be quite a powerful force in rolling stock procurement, so we will see. I can also see why folks are being so quiet about the negotiations.

Do correct me if i'm wrong, but as far as i'm aware the WAG now control who gets the franchise for wales, as well as stock allocations as they subsidise a large amount of the cost of leasing units now.

I might have to argue, as on the Valleys you don't get turned away from daytime services do you?

I have been a number of times.

[DanielP]

Yup WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) do have direct control over the trains in Wales, which is why we have hoovered up a reasonable amount of units recently. However, this has been at the expense of the EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (ex-Wessex). I bet we are seeing a WAG versus DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) altercation regarding stock allocation.

Daniel

[Shazz]

Yup WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) do have direct control over the trains in Wales, which is why we have hoovered up a reasonable amount of units recently. However, this has been at the expense of the EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (ex-Wessex). I bet we are seeing a WAG versus DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) altercation regarding stock allocation.

Daniel

...and the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) failing miserably.

The WAG arn't going to release any units to anyone, even if it's costing them money to have them in storage before platform alteratiuons finish to the valleys. As they know damn well how important the railways are for wales.

[DanielP]

I thought that the fact that these units weren't used straight away would cause problems!!!

Yes, you are right- I believe Rhodri Morgan likes his trains for a start. Also, instead of having a transport dept, the WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) dept covering transport is Economy and Transport. They actually make it clear that the two are connected and that good transport links improve the economy!! Pity that there is nothing like that in the South West, because Devon and Cornwall could do with it!

Daniel

[smithy]

Yup WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) do have direct control over the trains in Wales, which is why we have hoovered up a reasonable amount of units recently. However, this has been at the expense of the EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (ex-Wessex). I bet we are seeing a WAG versus DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) altercation regarding stock allocation.

Daniel

...and the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) failing miserably.

The WAG arn't going to release any units to anyone, even if it's costing them money to have them in storage before platform alteratiuons finish to the valleys. As they know damn well how important the railways are for wales.

well shazz come april/may time you are going to be very surprised then because fgw ARE taking 5 150 2's off atw as they cannot afford to keep em on and that is from a VERY GOOD source who happens to know the comings and goings.
but if you still do not believe it just wait a few months and you will see those crappy green/cream units with fgw splattered down the side of them.

[welshman]

Yes - WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) are not perfect but they are trying hard.    There's nothing yet on the WAG website about train thefts by FGW^▸ (First Great Western).

The main fix needed urgently in Wales is the improvement of the bottleneck from Cogan to Cardiff Queen Street to birng a third platform in at Queen Street and organise two way working.  But that means the railway bridge over Newport Road has to be widened and that's a job for Network Rail in 2011/12.  So until then...

WAG also responded to complaints from the Mid Wales users seeking the re-opening of Carno station between Shrewsbury and Aberystwyth.  They actually showed interest and held a committee session in Carno to hear evidence.  Sadly the answer is "No" because there's a short platform issue.

So we have the silly position that there is a passing loop just to the West of Carno and at the top of the Talerddig Bank where 158s stand silently in the (lovely) countryside waiting for the "opposing" service to pass.  The suggestions was to double track a section at Carno and rebuild the station so trains could pass at a station rather than in the middle of nowhere.

Bore yourself rigid about it here or Google "Talerddig passing loop" for more.

[Shazz]

Yup WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) do have direct control over the trains in Wales, which is why we have hoovered up a reasonable amount of units recently. However, this has been at the expense of the EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (ex-Wessex). I bet we are seeing a WAG versus DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) altercation regarding stock allocation.

Daniel

...and the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) failing miserably.

The WAG arn't going to release any units to anyone, even if it's costing them money to have them in storage before platform alteratiuons finish to the valleys. As they know damn well how important the railways are for wales.

well shazz come april/may time you are going to be very surprised then because fgw ARE taking 5 150 2's off atw as they cannot afford to keep em on and that is from a VERY GOOD source who happens to know the comings and goings.
but if you still do not believe it just wait a few months and you will see those crappy green/cream units with fgw splattered down the side of them.

You seem to be missing the point, the WAG subsidise the lease cost on quite a majority of units, specifically the 10 new 150's we got a few months back. SO it's costing the WAG a small nominal fee to keep these units, even if they're not in traffic, they have allocations for the very near future across the AW area. I'm 99% certain the WAG won't be letting any units go.

[Btline]

Ok- I'm confused!

Has Andrew got back to anyone?

Are the rumours true?

[Timmer]

For what its worth Modern Railways is a pretty well respected rail journal and wouldn't report on this if they didn't have a good source from which this story came.

To quote the first sentence of the story:

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is to receive five of the Class 150/2 DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) which were transferred to ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) at the end of the Central Trains franchise on 9 December 2007.

There is no 'maybe' or 'possibly' receive, 'is to' receive is what it says which goes along with what Vacman told us a couple of weeks back including the number of units.

Of course FGW won't confirm or deny anything until the ink is dry on the contract and its all official. Besides they will probably want to make a right song and dance about this with Andrew Haines making the announcement. My theory is that these 150s will be leased until FGW receive their fleet 150/1s from London Midland as a stop gap measure. Either that or ATW will receive some of the London Midland sets that were due to FGW which if they are three car 150/1s will be a benefit to ATW of having some three car 150s instead of two car 150s in the long term.

[gaf71]

Ok- I'm confused!

Has Andrew got back to anyone?

Are the rumours true?

It's the rumour in FGW^▸ (First Great Western) messrooms, and they are normally correct.

[Jim]

Ha ha! We can have a "my service is more sh%t than yours" competition.

It would be long and probably quite tedious. Maybe they could televise it instead of late night roulette??

Daniel

PS- I remember when they thought it was appropriate to use a Hampshire Unit to on the Sou to Cardiff- imagine that! I think the service was at its most comfortable when it was a Class 33 + four or five mk1s.

Na, it was better about three years ago when the FO 12xx Bristol-Brighton was top and tailed propper loco's (31's!!!)

12.532

[vacman]

Yup WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) do have direct control over the trains in Wales, which is why we have hoovered up a reasonable amount of units recently. However, this has been at the expense of the EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (ex-Wessex). I bet we are seeing a WAG versus DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) altercation regarding stock allocation.

Daniel

...and the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) failing miserably.

The WAG arn't going to release any units to anyone, even if it's costing them money to have them in storage before platform alteratiuons finish to the valleys. As they know damn well how important the railways are for wales.

well shazz come april/may time you are going to be very surprised then because fgw ARE taking 5 150 2's off atw as they cannot afford to keep em on and that is from a VERY GOOD source who happens to know the comings and goings.
but if you still do not believe it just wait a few months and you will see those crappy green/cream units with fgw splattered down the side of them.

You seem to be missing the point, the WAG subsidise the lease cost on quite a majority of units, specifically the 10 new 150's we got a few months back. SO it's costing the WAG a small nominal fee to keep these units, even if they're not in traffic, they have allocations for the very near future across the AW area. I'm 99% certain the WAG won't be letting any units go.

The WAG may well be powerfull, BUT THE UNITS ARE OWNED BY THE ROSCOS! so ultimately it's up to the ROSCO^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about)'s!

[vacman]

For what its worth Modern Railways is a pretty well respected rail journal and wouldn't report on this if they didn't have a good source from which this story came.

To quote the first sentence of the story:

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is to receive five of the Class 150/2 DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) which were transferred to ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) at the end of the Central Trains franchise on 9 December 2007.

There is no 'maybe' or 'possibly' receive, 'is to' receive is what it says which goes along with what Vacman told us a couple of weeks back including the number of units.

Of course FGW won't confirm or deny anything until the ink is dry on the contract and its all official. Besides they will probably want to make a right song and dance about this with Andrew Haines making the announcement. My theory is that these 150s will be leased until FGW receive their fleet 150/1s from London Midland as a stop gap measure. Either that or ATW will receive some of the London Midland sets that were due to FGW which if they are three car 150/1s will be a benefit to ATW of having some three car 150s instead of two car 150s in the long term.

I've heard from a good source, the same source that all of this has come from, that these are EXTRA units to allow the strengthening of the 158 fleet, and the DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) have got something to do with it, the 150/1's will still be coming to replace the 142's, maybe Arriva are getting more 142's?

[r james]

I suspect ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) wont be happy with more 142s, as they are a nightmare for revenue protection, as has previously been stated,  when it comes to running them in multiple formations.   

What's wrong with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) getting some of the 142s which are in store if they are short of stock?? 

As has already been said, the pacers have apparently been received well in their new location, so FGW should keep them.

Lets be honest, what has been confirmed for the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) 150s could all well change by the time they are actually freed up.  Its not as if anything different has happened with the 150s this time is it?

As has already been suggested by myself, even if ATW receive some extra 150s from the future cascade, as FGW will not require all of the LM units. 



I still look forward to seeing the FGW pacer refurbishment! It may turn them into reasonable units internally?