Well would you believe it??

[whole diary]

[Btline]

Or they are axing the branch lines!

If there is an excess, it might explain why LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise)'s Class 172 order has 1 less vehicle in it than their 150s.

Oh, well. Where will these units be going? Bristol commuter? Severn Beach?

Oh- on the subject of Severn Beach, why do most trains terminate at Avonmouth to be "bustituted" to Severn Beach at off peak times?

What's wrong with the railway?

To sustain a 1 hourly timetable through the day. If they went to Severn Beach two units would be needed to run anything like an hourly service.

The hop from Avonmouth - Severn Beach doesn't go any faster that 25mph I believe, so could be greatly improved!

yes, but they manage during the peaks, when arguably, there is more of a demand for units.

Still does not make sense! Surely there is another Pacer/153 available during off peak times?

[Lee]

Or they are axing the branch lines!

If there is an excess, it might explain why LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise)'s Class 172 order has 1 less vehicle in it than their 150s.

Oh, well. Where will these units be going? Bristol commuter? Severn Beach?

Oh- on the subject of Severn Beach, why do most trains terminate at Avonmouth to be "bustituted" to Severn Beach at off peak times?

What's wrong with the railway?

To sustain a 1 hourly timetable through the day. If they went to Severn Beach two units would be needed to run anything like an hourly service.

The hop from Avonmouth - Severn Beach doesn't go any faster that 25mph I believe, so could be greatly improved!

yes, but they manage during the peaks, when arguably, there is more of a demand for units.

Still does not make sense! Surely there is another Pacer/153 available during off peak times?

To put it another way, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are not obligated in the specification to provide a train service to Severn Beach during the daytime, and are allowed to instead operate the Avonmouth-Severn Beach section by bus. This they do, because it works out cheaper for them.

This could change in May 2008, as Bristol City Council are meant to be funding an extra unit for the Severn Beach line, and, as mentioned in one of my earlier posts in this topic, one of the May 2008 service options includes a train every 2 hours for Severn Beach.

[devon_metro]

Anyone have any passenger figures for Severn Beach and St Andrews Rd.?

[swlines]

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/nav.1529 is the latest publicly available...

[Lee]

From a list of questions that I asked Andrew Griffiths regarding the Severn Beach Line Development Plan :

I posed a further question regarding this :

I would like to refer you to sections 2.6.7 - 2.6.9 of the LDP (link below.)
http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Documents/Custom/Severn%20Beach%20Line%20Development%20Plan.pdf

Your footfall data for 2005 - 2006 is as follows :

Lawrence Hill - 46551
Stapleton Road - 74257
Montpelier - 65347
Redland - 50258
Clifton Down - 142329
Sea Mills - 34129
Shirehampton - 29651
Avonmouth - 28717
St Andrews Road - 4996
Severn Beach - 26690

However , the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) station usage data for 2005 - 2006 is as follows (link below.) :
http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/nav.1529

Lawrence Hill - 55865
Stapleton Road - 86997
Montpelier - 73573
Redland - 55529
Clifton Down - 153027
Sea Mills - 36411
Shirehampton - 31539
Avonmouth - 43365
St Andrews Road - 8008
Severn Beach - 37008

With big rises in passenger numbers registered at Avonmouth & Severn Beach , and a smaller , but still significant rise registered at Shirehampton , please could I request that the following section of the LDP be altered to reflect this? :

"2.6.9 Over time usage patterns are surprisingly erratic, and there must be a slight question mark about the data as the overall totals do not appear to be consistent. With this caveat, no station has grown every year, although St Andrews Road and Redland have become substantially more busy, and Shirehampton, Avonmouth and Severn Beach substantially less busy (but the latest - November 2006 - local authority count shows an increase in usage at Shirehampton)"

AG - Report data is in fact RSP 2005 year and so should have been listed as 2004-05, not 05-06.  Our data and ORR data is the same - comes from ticket sales.  The 06-07 data should now be available, I will chase this up.

[Btline]

Or they are axing the branch lines!

If there is an excess, it might explain why LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise)'s Class 172 order has 1 less vehicle in it than their 150s.

Oh, well. Where will these units be going? Bristol commuter? Severn Beach?

Oh- on the subject of Severn Beach, why do most trains terminate at Avonmouth to be "bustituted" to Severn Beach at off peak times?

What's wrong with the railway?

To sustain a 1 hourly timetable through the day. If they went to Severn Beach two units would be needed to run anything like an hourly service.

The hop from Avonmouth - Severn Beach doesn't go any faster that 25mph I believe, so could be greatly improved!

yes, but they manage during the peaks, when arguably, there is more of a demand for units.

Still does not make sense! Surely there is another Pacer/153 available during off peak times?

To put it another way, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are not obligated in the specification to provide a train service to Severn Beach during the daytime, and are allowed to instead operate the Avonmouth-Severn Beach section by bus. This they do, because it works out cheaper for them.

This could change in May 2008, as Bristol City Council are meant to be funding an extra unit for the Severn Beach line, and, as mentioned in one of my earlier posts in this topic, one of the May 2008 service options includes a train every 2 hours for Severn Beach.

Then the spec. must be cr*p! What sort of spec says that a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) can stop 2 stops short of the end of a branch line? Absolute madness!

PS- sorry for swearing!

Oh well, fingers crossed for May!

[Lee]

What sort of spec says that a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) can stop 2 stops short of the end of a branch line?

This one :

Services between 0800 and 1700 on Mondays to Fridays may be provided by means of a Connection at Avonmouth and during these hours the service between Avonmouth and Severn Beach may be provided by road transport.

[Btline]

What sort of spec says that a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) can stop 2 stops short of the end of a branch line?

This one :

Services between 0800 and 1700 on Mondays to Fridays may be provided by means of a Connection at Avonmouth and during these hours the service between Avonmouth and Severn Beach may be provided by road transport.

 

[Lee]

Avonmouth-Severn Beach, step-by-step :

[Graz]

Thanks for that Lee

Just out of interest, how many people used the rail replacement bus?

[Lee]

Thanks for that Lee

Just out of interest, how many people used the rail replacement bus?

If I remember rightly, there were about 5 on it both ways. One passenger got off at St Andrews Road on the return journey to Avonmouth. I travelled on it around lunchtime though, which is always a quiet time. As you move closer to the peak, the buses generally get busier.

I gave a talk in Avonmouth towards the end of last year, and I asked the locals (around 12 people, so dont take this as being sceintific) what they would most like to see improved about their train service. I expected them to say "better reliability" or "higher frequency" but the majority said "more trains to Severn Beach, because the bus puts people off."

I have to say that choice surprised me, and I am sure that it will surprise you as well.

[vacman]

Then the spec. must be cr*p! What sort of spec says that a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) can stop 2 stops short of the end of a branch line? Absolute madness!

PS- sorry for swearing!

Oh well, fingers crossed for May!

It's been like this since BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) days I think?

[grahame]

If I remember rightly, there were about 5 on it both ways. ...

I gave a talk in Avonmouth towards the end of last year, and I asked the locals (around 12 people, so dont take this as being sceintific) what they would most like to see improved about their train service. I expected them to say "better reliability" or "higher frequency" but the majority said "more trains to Severn Beach, because the bus puts people off."

I have to say that choice surprised me, and I am sure that it will surprise you as well.

Lee, I'm not surprised in the slightest 

Local experience in Wiltshire has shown that is a train is replaced by a bus (one of Melksham's "bustititution"s), the number of passengers on the bus is somewhere between a sixth and a quarter of the passengers that use the service on the days that it's a train.   So your "there were 5 on the bus" would have read "there were 25 on the train" if a train had been running, based on our experience.

[Lee]

Then the spec. must be cr*p! What sort of spec says that a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) can stop 2 stops short of the end of a branch line? Absolute madness!

PS- sorry for swearing!

Oh well, fingers crossed for May!

It's been like this since BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) days I think?

Certainly since the late 90's, I think. It was all train in the 1991 timetable, for example.

If I remember rightly, there were about 5 on it both ways. ...

I gave a talk in Avonmouth towards the end of last year, and I asked the locals (around 12 people, so dont take this as being sceintific) what they would most like to see improved about their train service. I expected them to say "better reliability" or "higher frequency" but the majority said "more trains to Severn Beach, because the bus puts people off."

I have to say that choice surprised me, and I am sure that it will surprise you as well.

Lee, I'm not surprised in the slightest 

Local experience in Wiltshire has shown that is a train is replaced by a bus (one of Melksham's "bustititution"s), the number of passengers on the bus is somewhere between a sixth and a quarter of the passengers that use the service on the days that it's a train.   So your "there were 5 on the bus" would have read "there were 25 on the train" if a train had been running, based on our experience.

Oh dont get me wrong, I'm pleased that was the majority view

I just didnt expect it to come in front of the other issues I mentioned.

[Lee]

Then the spec. must be cr*p! What sort of spec says that a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) can stop 2 stops short of the end of a branch line? Absolute madness!

PS- sorry for swearing!

Oh well, fingers crossed for May!

It's been like this since BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) days I think?

Certainly since the late 90's, I think. It was all train in the 1991 timetable, for example.

Knew I had something on this. From a note by the Severnside Community Rail Partnership written in April 2006 :

In the early 1990s, the Severn Beach timetable generally consisted of 15 trains a day, all operating through to Severn Beach. This service required 2 separate train units, which crossed at Clifton Down. In the run up to privatisation, BR sought to reduce the service, both to save costs and to release a train unit, because this was seen as the only way of providing a more frequent service at the new Filton Abbey Wood station, which Avon wished to promote. Around 1995 an agreement was reached between Avon and BR, under which Avon paid for the trains over and above those which BR was prepared to continue funding, to enable an hourly service, with buses providing some journeys between Avonmouth and Severn Beach. Additional services were introduced to serve the new Filton Abbey Wood station. This agreement was intended to last for at least 10 years, and so was taken on board by subsequent rail operators following privatisation. When privatisation was being considered, the government specified the minimum level of service for each line. This was called the passenger service requirement (PSR^▸ (Permanent Speed Restriction)). Train operators were able to provide services additional to the PSR, provided they carried the cost (or obtained supplementary funding) but were contractually forbidden to go below this level. The PSR for the Severn Beach recognised that 12 services a day were funded by the train operator, and so the PSR was set at this level, with a requirement for only 5 of the 12 to be extended to Severn Beach. Following local government re-organisation in 1996, Bristol City Council assumed the responsibility for funding the additional 3 train journeys above the PSR, while South Gloucestershire Council funded the bus link.

This agreement was re-negotiated, between Wessex Trains and the local authorities in 2004. The service was similar, but a performance element was introduced. Until 31 March 2006 the arrangement was therefore:-

 15 services a day to Avonmouth, with 7 of the 15 running through to Severn Beach, including an hourly day-time off-peak service as far as Avonmouth after 10.30am; 12 of the 15 services were financed by the train operator;

 Bristol City Council paid the rail operator (about ^136,000 pa, but subject to reductions for poor performance) to cover the costs of 3 return services a day;

 South Gloucestershire Council paid for the full costs of a bus link between Avonmouth and Severn Beach, at times when the trains were not operating to Severn Beach. Initially the bus was equipped with a railway ticket machine, which was returned each day to Temple Meads, and the Council received a proportion of the ticket revenue. This arrangement was changed under the 2004 agreement, since when the train operator has not been involved in the ticketing of this bus service. Recently, tickets bought on the bus have only been issued to local Severn Beach line stations, not to other points on the national rail network. The total revenue support for rail services from South Gloucestershire Council (including assistance towards supplementary services serving Filton Abbey Wood) has been around ^65,000pa.

This service of 15 return journeys to Avonmouth, with 7 being extended to Severn Beach, could be operated by one train, although in the very early morning a second train is currently in use, enabling the first two commuter journeys to Bristol to both start from Severn Beach - rather than one just starting from Avonmouth. The hourly service does not start until after 10.30am, which also permits a through train service from Severn Beach at 9.50am. The additional early morning train unit is used on the 06.16am service from Severn Beach, but once it reaches Temple Meads this train unit is then used on other routes in the Greater Bristol area.

It should be stressed that there has never been any agreement with any of the local authorities for the local leasing of trains for the Severn Beach service.

The responsibility for funding (as part of the franchise specification - Lee) the full current level of service (15 trains a day to Avonmouth, 7 of which continue to Severn Beach) was transferred to First Great Western on 1 April 2006. Bristol City Council was therefore no longer required to provide funding towards the current level of service. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) also took over from South Gloucestershire Council the full responsibility for providing and funding the bus link to Severn Beach, which connects with trains terminating at Avonmouth.