Missing connections to buy tickets

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

....but unfortunately true!

[bobm]

The sad thing is, this probably wouldn't be such a problem if people were honest & didn't try to defraud the railway

But isn't that the case with so many things in life?  You have to base things on the the lowest common denominator.

[LiskeardRich]

In an scenario where you have to miss a connection to buy a ticket, and then the next train isn't for say 1 hour, would you then be entitled to delay repay for being delayed?

[TaplowGreen]

The sad thing is, this probably wouldn't be such a problem if people were honest & didn't try to defraud the railway

But isn't that the case with so many things in life?  You have to base things on the the lowest common denominator.

As a % of total passenger numbers, how many customers are convicted of defrauding the railway, say in the most recent 12 month period available?

[ChrisB]

I think I'd be asking about the amount of ^ defrauded as a % of the total. But the problem is that if you make it easier, you could be encouraging it.

[grahame]

I think I'd be asking about the amount of ^ defrauded as a % of the total. But the problem is that if you make it easier, you could be encouraging it.

Did you specifically mean "defrauded" - or "fraud" and "evasion"?  I would be interested in both, and indeed also the amounts not collected because there was no opportunity to pay at any point?

From The Times:

Rising numbers of cheating passengers could be prosecuted for fraud ^ rather than the lesser crime of fare evasion ^ as part of plans to prevent "significant" levels of non-payment, it has emerged.

As a % of total passenger numbers, how many customers are convicted of defrauding the railway, say in the most recent 12 month period available?

I suspect a lot of the problem is in quantifying something which is illegal / not likely to be admitted if travels are asked in surveys ...

And do you look at proposition of passengers, at proportion of journeys, or proportion of fares lost.

[TaplowGreen]

I think I'd be asking about the amount of ^ defrauded as a % of the total. But the problem is that if you make it easier, you could be encouraging it.

Well not really, because that wouldn't give you an indication of how many people were involved, your accusation alluded to people defrauding the railway, not an amount of money - you could have large amounts of money defrauded by a relatively small amount of customers, so you need an idea of the number of people involved to back up your assertion.

Don't get me wrong, I think fare evasion is despicable, but even if it's as high as 10% (which I very much doubt), today's figures which Grahame posted elsewhere shows that 20% of FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) services were late last month, which makes you wonder who's twirling who.

[Henry]

 This is not an isolated incident, perhaps it's time that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) offered a 'print your own' ticket facility, like XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)).
 
 
 

[TaplowGreen]

 This is not an isolated incident, perhaps it's time that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) offered a 'print your own' ticket facility, like XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)).
 
 
 

Excellent idea.....most airlines, and even National Express allow tickets to be downloaded onto smartphones, perhaps that could happen too.

[LiskeardRich]

 This is not an isolated incident, perhaps it's time that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) offered a 'print your own' ticket facility, like XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)).
 
 
 

Excellent idea.....most airlines, and even National Express allow tickets to be downloaded onto smartphones, perhaps that could happen too.

Megabus is even better, you just need to know your reference. The driver then checks the reference against a passenger list to check its valid. You can have it wrote down anywhere, in your memory or printed email confirmation.
So its kind of "hi driver, my reference is 123456" and he then welcomes you aboard.

[ChrisB]

But zero option to upgrade/refund. I've been caught that way several times & you lose the lot

[Bob_Blakey]

If the scenario described is that much of a problem could regular travellers not use carnet tickets? Or has making such tickets available required the application of far too much common sense by the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) marketing & revenue protection teams (assuming they talk to one another)?

[Richard Fairhurst]

Carnets do indeed exist in a few locations - there's a Charlbury-Oxford carnet, and I believe in Cornwall and Devon too. It's a shame that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) haven't extended their use (where barriers permit), and that of other ticketing initiatives such as the part-time season tickets also available in Devon and Cornwall.

[Tim]

If the OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter) decided to take this to the small claims court for the difference between the full fare and the railcard discounted one, I would bet it would be settled before it even got there (that's IMO^▸ (in my opinion) for the sake of clarity).

Again, IMO, these grey areas suit the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) very nicely and they would not want to elaborate on the situation in court.

Absolutely, true that the grey areas suit the TOCs (I will correct your suggestion that a small claims court decision would create a president, I would not).

This is just the sort of issue that cannot be left to the TOCs (or the courts)  What are the regulators doing about things like this, I ask?

[ChrisB]

Nowt to do with regulators - HM Government set the franchises