No reservations

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

Got the 1455 from Plymouth to Reading today (....as an aside it was the green set), train originated from Penzance. Info screens were warning no reservations on the train.

I was in First class and sat in the seat on my ticket anyway as I had an inkling there may be problems.....sure enough, the TM^‡(resolve) announced that Weekend First upgrades were available and by Newton Abbott First was pretty full....then of course we get people boarding at Exeter, Tiverton etc with first class tickets to find their seats occupied by "upgraders" - cue a debate from the on train staff - first telling people that reservations weren't valid, but then coming through again and telling those who had upgraded would have to move for those with reservations - some refused point blank, others grudgingly moved.....after 3 requests from the TM, a couple of people with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff passes also rather sheepishly gave up their seats.

Rather stupid I felt to offer upgrades in these circumstances, and then a bloody nerve to tell people they'd have to move afterwards!

[trainer]

Perhaps when the reservation system is down on a busy service, Weekend First should be suspended also.  I often use this facility, but I think I would be more annoyed to buy it and then have it snatched from me than knowing before I boarded (or soon after) that I would not be able to enjoy it.

[Timmer]

We always knew that the reduction of First class would cause issues on services to and from the SW. First was busy on most SW services when there were two/two and a half coaches. Now every seat is often taken and more leading to what TaplowGreen saw today, despite the increase of the cost of Advance tickets.

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) may have to rethink the provision of Weekend First on SW services and maybe some South Wales to London services as well where the frequency is hourly at weekends.

[PhilWakely]

Rather stupid I felt to offer upgrades in these circumstances, and then a bloody nerve to tell people they'd have to move afterwards!

In the event I'd been sold a Weekend First and then been asked to vacate the seat, I wouldn't hesitate to ask for a refund of the supplement, PLUS a ^10 'Administration charge'.

[Timmer]

Giving this some more thought, GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) will say they are covered with regards to Weekend First as the small print reads 'subject to availability'.

If all seats are taken/reserved then it's not available so you can't upgrade.

[TaplowGreen]

Giving this some more thought, GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) will say they are covered with regards to Weekend First as the small print reads 'subject to availability'.

If all seats are taken/reserved then it's not available so you can't upgrade.

Yes but the problem was because there were no reservations.....the train crew were letting people upgrade with no idea how many First class ticket holders were boarding through the journey. It wasn't till Exeter that they realises there was a problem. Weekend First should have been suspended on this service.

[bobm]

Unless the system was totally down, which I doubt, staff should be able to check how many reservations there were even if the physical paper tickets were not on display.

[TaplowGreen]

Unless the system was totally down, which I doubt, staff should be able to check how many reservations there were even if the physical paper tickets were not on display.

   ......well it would appear that they failed to do so today.....

[broadgage]

Was a refund offered to those who had paid for a weekend first upgrade and then been told to move ? If not then that IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) is bordering on dishonesty, to take the money and then not provide that which has been paid for.

Did all those with first class reservations eventually get a first class seat ? and if not, were refunds of the difference between first and cattle class offered ?

If those with first class reservations suffered significant delay before obtaining a first class seat, was a partial refund offered, perhaps of the difference between first and steerage for a part of the journey.

What about any passengers with first open tickets or season tickets, did they get a first class seat, and if not a refund of the difference in fares ?

I would be most displeased if I had paid for weekend first and then been required to move to cattle class, and if cattle class was by then full and standing and as a result I then had to stand I would be seriously annoyed.
I do of course understand that weekend first might not be available, and would fully understand if told that that it was full or not available. But to take the money and THEN not provide it is very poor.

Anyway the new trains only have 36 first class seats, so better get used to it.

[didcotdean]

Weekend First is listed as a type of first class ticket - not a space available upgrade that can be withdrawn after sale if too many people with a more expensive kind of first class ticket happens to get on.

In general with the reduction in space, maybe consideration should be given to the Cross Country procedure of weekend first not being available to those with standard advance tickets. They would have been likely to have had the choice of advanced first at time of purchase and should have a reserved seat on that service in any case.

[TaplowGreen]

Was a refund offered to those who had paid for a weekend first upgrade and then been told to move ? If not then that IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) is bordering on dishonesty, to take the money and then not provide that which has been paid for.

Did all those with first class reservations eventually get a first class seat ? and if not, were refunds of the difference between first and cattle class offered ?

If those with first class reservations suffered significant delay before obtaining a first class seat, was a partial refund offered, perhaps of the difference between first and steerage for a part of the journey.

What about any passengers with first open tickets or season tickets, did they get a first class seat, and if not a refund of the difference in fares ?

I would be most displeased if I had paid for weekend first and then been required to move to cattle class, and if cattle class was by then full and standing and as a result I then had to stand I would be seriously annoyed.
I do of course understand that weekend first might not be available, and would fully understand if told that that it was full or not available. But to take the money and THEN not provide it is very poor.

Anyway the new trains only have 36 first class seats, so better get used to it.

If memory serves, some people hadn't yet paid for their upgrade when the TM^‡(resolve) came through and asked them to move so they were less of a problem and I think I heard the TM offering them a free tea or coffee......there were a couple sat near me who had boarded at Truro and paid for their upgrade, they refused point blank to move and the TM left them.....by this stage people were getting on with their 1st class tickets/reservations and asking people who were in "their" seats to move....it was only at this stage that the TM asked if any staff were travelling on passes (he asked several times) and one or two people got up and moved into standard class - naughty really as I understood they should have been the first to give up their seats.

There were a few people who had paid for their upgrades and agreed to move, they were promised refunds.

Not sure about open 1st class or season tickets.

To be honest the whole situation could have been avoided (taking into account the lack of reservation tickets)by not allowing any 1st class upgrades until Taunton -from there the service was fast to Reading so it would have been clear if there were any spare seats in 1st.

In my experience, Sunday afternoon services from the SW to London are often very overcrowded especially when everyone's luggage is taken into account, and taking into account the much reduced 1st class accomodation (and higher fares for Advance tickets), it's probably time to call a halt to Weekend 1st on these services.

[IndustryInsider]

In my experience, Sunday afternoon services from the SW to London are often very overcrowded especially when everyone's luggage is taken into account, and taking into account the much reduced 1st class accomodation (and higher fares for Advance tickets), it's probably time to call a halt to Weekend 1st on these services.

I agree that the Weekend First policy should be reviewed - perhaps just allowing it in the half-coach section and keeping the full coach as full first class only, rather than getting rid of it all together?

I'd certainly be in favour of a ban on the weekend staff 1st class upgrades on all Sunday afternoon services from the SW (and South Wales) though they should only be used when there's space anyway.

More seats/services desperately needed on Sunday afternoons and the recent extra standard class seats are a most welcome boost on these trains giving the lie to those who claim it's only Thames Valley commuters who benefit to the detriment of others.  Imagine the crowding if all HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) still only had 5 standard carriages still...

[TaplowGreen]

Just a question on this based on something I've just been asked.......are on train staff incentivised to sell Weekend First upgrades?

[IndustryInsider]

I believe it just counts as an ordinary ticket sale for them, so could potentially earn them the same amount of commission that selling a normal ticket on board would do.

[TaplowGreen]

I believe it just counts as an ordinary ticket sale for them, so could potentially earn them the same amount of commission that selling a normal ticket on board would do.

   ......I guess that explains why they continued to sell them then.