Somerset District and Circle line

[whole diary]

[grahame]

A new proposal from Somerset, being advocated by several attendees at the RailFuture conference yesterday (though not, be it stressed, Railfuture sponsored)

http://somersetdistrictandcircleline.com

Serving the local community since 1906, the original Langport East station site at Eastover was closed in September 1962 as part of the Beeching cuts. Later the Langport West station was also closed, leaving no railway stations to serve the area of Langport and Huish Episcopi.

An unofficial survey in 2004 showed that one of the main hopes of the residents of Langport was to have the railway station reopened.

A new Langport station could see environmentally-friendly sprinter type trains connecting the town to Taunton and Castle Cary.

Using some of the carriages from the District and Circle Lines in London, which are being taken out of service, and refurbishing these to be powered by biomethane (renewable natural gas made from local organic wastes) will result in an environmentally friendly, low carbon, sustainable railway service.

Hence the name ^Somerset District and Circle Line^ which will eventually serve a series of re-opened and existing stations on a circular route through , Langport, Taunton, Bridgwater, Weston-super Mare, Bristol, Bath, Bradford on Avon, Trowbridge Westbury, Frome, Bruton, Castle Cary, Somerton, Upton and back to Langport. The number of reopened stations will depend on the funds we can raise from the government and local communities.

[JayMac]

I like the route idea, but not the rolling stock one.

[John R]

I like the route idea, but not the rolling stock one.

Indeed, 40ish miles of main line running with stock restricted to 60mph would not be ideal.

[grahame]

A station at Langport, with a population of less that 5,000, will probably require flows other than residents to come up with a good BCR^▸ (Benefit Cost Ratio) ... and I fear that there's a lot of paths gobbled up by that slow train; not too much of a problem at the moment, but with the aspiration of 3 hours to Plymouth plus high speed regional services, some careful diagrams would be needed at the least in the future, would they not?

[JayMac]

Langport and Somerton are part of large swathe of south central Somerset that is more than 10 miles from a railhead. More than a 5000 passenger base I suggest.

There's also the Local Plans for these areas specifying more housing. Although, as you'd expect, there's a great deal of resistance, nay Nimbyism, to such plans.

By the way, the idea of bringing LU rolling stock to this part of the world has already been suggested:

http://carryonlangport.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/piccadilly-line.html?m=1

Regards,

bignosemac

(Temporary resident of the Langport area annoyed at having to rely on woeful bus services. Who would be delighted to become a regular user of a reopened Langport station).

[JayMac]

A station at Langport, with a population of less that 5,000, will probably require flows other than residents to come up with a good BCR^▸ (Benefit Cost Ratio) ... and I fear that there's a lot of paths gobbled up by that slow train; not too much of a problem at the moment, but with the aspiration of 3 hours to Plymouth plus high speed regional services, some careful diagrams would be needed at the least in the future, would they not?

Is this concern about paths and diagrams actually closer to home grahame,  rather than about aspirational journey times to Plymouth?

Slotting in a 'Somerset' loop service via Trowbridge, Westbury, Frome and Castle Cary could have an effect on TransWilts and Heart of Wessex aspirations.
 
What about a Swindon to Taunton inter regional service? Re-double Thingley to Bradford...

Local services between Westbury and Taunton can be kept out of the way of Devon and Cornwall expresses with existing infrastructure. You've got the Westbury avoider and Frome loop. It's only really Castle Cary to Cogload that may be a pinch point,  but that isnt a really heavily used section. I'm sure an hourly service calling at Somerton, then Langport, could be fitted in. Be that a 'Somerset Loop' service or Swindon-Taunton...

Of course I fully understand the TransWilts focus is the other way toward Salisbury.

[ellendune]

I would have thought the main capacity issue for this circle would be from Bristol to Bath. Bearing in mind the proposal for MetroWest. 

[grahame]

It struck me in James White's presentation at Metro West on Saturday, when he talked about population areas and work areas, that  Bath was shown as "+9000 jobs" with no additional residence at all nearby, and that's because Wiltshire is not part of West of England ... but that's where the balancing residential is from.

West of England has a half-hourly local service Temple Meads, Keynsham, [Saltford}, Oldfleld Park, Bath Spa ... one service already in place extends Freshford, Avoncliff, Bradford-on-Avon, Trowbridge - Westbury with "some services continuing" - Brighton, Warminster, Frome, Weymouth.   The second service is an interesting one - reversal in the platform at Bath seems out (though the CrossCountry service to (?) Edinburgh does so) and there are looks at Bathampton Junction, and at extending to Westbury; an alternative would be to {Corsham}, Chippenham [Bay], {Royal Wootton Bassett} and Swindon, with an electric unit.  In the "Westbury" mix - or indeed without it - there's sense in extending more services to / via Frome, with hourly TransWilts becoming the second train south of Westbury to Salisbury and beyond.

If/when we have a Plymouth and Cornwall express and an Exeter semi-fast via Berks and Hants and Castle Cary, that two-hourly service would provide a far improved Frome - Taunton link than we have at present, and I do wonder about an extra call between Castle Cary and Taunton.   Question in my mind is would such a station generate extra new traffic to sufficient level, or would much of the traffic be abstracted from park-and-ride at Castle Cary to park-and-ride at the new station?   Still a potential improvement if it's much easier to get to the new station, but not all a bed of roses.   I don't see Castle Cary being so busy that it can't cope and could do with relief, except on a handful of special days each year.

[JayMac]

Well, I do hope there is to be no, "I'm alright Jack", attitude from neighbouring campaign groups worried about their paths and flows.

[Andy]

Could this be an ideal service to extend from Taunton to the WSR (Norton end), thereby reestablishing a connection?

[Red Squirrel]

I would have thought the main capacity issue for this circle would be from Bristol to Bath. Bearing in mind the proposal for MetroWest. 

Via Mangotsfield? (Sorry, did I say that out loud?)

[grahame]

Well, I do hope there is to be no, "I'm alright Jack", attitude from neighbouring campaign groups worried about their paths and flows.

Yes, so do I - I hope there's a working together to combine flows and services to make better business cases.

Feeding into Westbury from the north ... you have hourly (potentially half hourly) local from Bristol and beyond, and two-hourly (potentially hourly?) from Swindon.   Onward to the south - looking at Weymouth, at Salisbury / Southampton, at shorter journeys to Warminster and Frome, and at aspirations such as Taunton via Langport and at Radstock - North Somerset Railway were also at Railfuture - see http://www.northsomersetrailway.com :

FIRST AGM^▸ (Annual General Meeting) OF THE REJUVENATED COMPANY - 24 OCTOBER 2015
This was the first AGM of the rejuvenated Company. On the same day we demonstrated the new train simulator and a working model of the proposed Mells Road Station. Personnel were on hand to answer questions and the project was discussed at length. We would like to express our thanks to the large numbers of the public in Radstock who visited this exhibition. It was made very clear by the people of Radstock that they want the link restored and strongly support it. Negotiations are in progress at the moment and the public will be kept informed.

My bolding in there - those works indicate national connection to me, rather than isolated heritage aspiration.

[Bmblbzzz]

In the proposed route: "a circular route through , Langport, Taunton, Bridgwater, Weston-super Mare, Bristol, Bath, Bradford on Avon, Trowbridge Westbury, Frome, Bruton, Castle Cary, Somerton, Upton and back to Langport. The number of reopened stations will depend on the funds we can raise from the government and local communities" where is Upton?

About the rest of the route, it strikes me that Frome, for instance, although within what might be called the 'Greater Bristol and Bath commuting zone' is rather an oddity here, due to the roundabout route the rails go, heading north-east to reach destinations that are to the west (Bristol, Bath, Bradford). So I can't see, on that basis (but I don't really know much about this) that being a popular route when it's in competetion with cars and buses. Frome to Somerton and Taunton, and the other direction to Westbury for connections to Melksham(!), Swindon, Warminster and beyond, on the other hand, seems far more likely. But then that bit is there already.

Edit: Ok, found Upton, in the place suggested by the route list, between Somerton and Langport. Seems very small to have any hope of getting a station.

[Oberon]

The rather ambitious Somerset Circle Line seems an unlikely scheme to succeed in the present circumstances. But if a small miracle were to occur in the shape of Langport and/or Somerton stations reopening, plus the ready availability of refurbished LU units, the best scheme would surely to have a Norton Fitzwarren - Castle Cary shuttle. When the WSR is closed the termination point would be Taunton.

This new service would mean the good people of Langport and Somerton could change at Taunton for journeys westward, or east to Bristol and the north. Eastbound they would change at ' Cary for Weymouth, London, Bath etc. By doing this, and not extending any further towards Frome & Westbury, main line HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) would not be inconvenienced. Any thoughts?

[JayMac]

Carrying on to at least Frome gets potential local services totally out of the way of expresses. Terminating and turning back at Castle Cary seems fraught with problems. Ideally at least Westbury with a 4th platform.

As already said I dont think the ex District stock would be the answer. 60mph is too slow. 90mph Turbos on the other hand... only 10mph off current max line speed for HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) between Westbury and Taunton, which is likely to be the same for Class 802s.