Choosing where to sit, on public transport (ongoing discussion)

[whole diary]

[grahame]

From The Metro

Kind commuter sits next to Muslim woman in full niqab after others shunned her.

Woking lad Dante Jamie Coyne made a point of taking a seat next to the Muslim on Monday morning after fellow commuters chose to sit elsewhere.

In a Facebook post he recorded how she later thanked him for sitting beside her and tells people to be less judgmental.

The post was liked over 44,000 times and any Muslim women have replied saying they have experienced the same treatment.

[grahame]

Also covered at

http://www.closeronline.co.uk/2015/10/a-mans-picture-of-an-ostracised-muslim-woman-goes-viral-as-others-share-similar-stories?

and original story at

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=dante%20jamie%20coyne

Judging by the pictures, the lady had her bag on the seat beside her ... I suspect a "set up" picture, but it rather lessens the story.

[grahame]

From the Daily Mirror

Raayan Zafar, 32, was accosted by a man on the tube who asked her to prove she was pregnant after she showed him her Baby on Board badge

[snip]

Raayan told the newspaper she is in the early stages of pregnancy and is yet to develop a visible bump.

She said she has seen lots of pregnant ladies wearing Baby on Board badges being ignored by selfish commuters.

[TaplowGreen]

From the Daily Mirror

Raayan Zafar, 32, was accosted by a man on the tube who asked her to prove she was pregnant after she showed him her Baby on Board badge

[snip]

Raayan told the newspaper she is in the early stages of pregnancy and is yet to develop a visible bump.

She said she has seen lots of pregnant ladies wearing Baby on Board badges being ignored by selfish commuters.

Yes I give up my seat to anyone who obviously needs it as well as the elderly or pregnant women - It's the way I was brought up.

[LiskeardRich]

I would give up without being asked to a visible pregnant woman - I live with one and know what they are like  Only another 7 1/2 weeks to put up with!!!!!! 

(also would give up to elderly, disabled, handicapped etc)

[Oxman]

I recently spent a couple of weeks going up to London everyday and I was appalled at the bad manners and lack of respect shown on the tube. Families with kids occupying seats when adults, some quite senior were left to stand. The parents showed absolutely no thought that maybe they should teach their kids to be mindful of others.

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

It^s probably symptomatic of our nervousness about PC matters that no-one has added to this thread.  So at the risk of upsetting someone^

1   How do I know the person is a Muslim woman?
2   If I assume the person is a Muslim woman, I would think that she would be uncomfortable having a man beside her and probably in physical contact, and I wouldn^t want to be embarrassed if I sat down next to her and she got up and moved away.
3   I^m sorry, but I feel uncomfortable if I can^t see someone^s face.  I probably wouldn^t sit next to someone in a balaclava or a big hoodie.  Why they cover their face is beside the point.
4   It is reasonable to expect people who travel on public transport to consider their fellow passengers.  Passengers make choices on where to sit based on who is already sitting where, looking at faces, age, gender etc.  If you cover your face it creates uncertainty for other passengers. 

[JayMac]

Last night I sat next to someone on the train whose face was covered. Didn't bother me in the slightest.

I thought he was a pirate. Turned out he was a dandy highwayman.

There were many other people in the carriage on the 2225 from Bath to Bristol whose faces were covered, either with masks or heavy make-up.

Ghosts, scary clowns, gas mask wearing haz-mat operatives, Frankenstein's monster, Edward Scissorhands, Jason Voorhees, Freddy Krueger, Morticia Addams, Harley Quinn and The Joker...

It^s probably symptomatic of our nervousness about PC matters that no-one has added to this thread.  So at the risk of upsetting someone^

Not upset, just disappointed by your reasoning.

[grahame]

It^s probably symptomatic of our nervousness about PC matters that no-one has added to this thread. 

It probably is ... and that didn't come as a surprise to me; expected it when I started the thread. THANK you for your follow up ...

I have met / worked with a number of people from exteremly different backgrounds and cultures to my own - and in all cases I can recall that I've got to know them beyond their background and culture, they've become first and foremost a person.  But that doesn't speak for an initial retisence/concern when I ask myself "will I offend if I behave in the natural way in which I was brought up". And, yes, that concern is usually groundless, and its manifestation in holding back may itself be of concern.

[Chris from Nailsea]

With thanks to those who have replied so far, I've now merged what was turning out to be a slightly overlapping discussion into this one topic - in the interests of clarity. 

[Bmblbzzz]

Last night I sat next to someone on the train whose face was covered. Didn't bother me in the slightest.

I thought he was a pirate. Turned out he was a dandy highwayman.

There were many other people in the carriage on the 2225 from Bath to Bristol whose faces were covered, either with masks or heavy make-up.

Ghosts, scary clowns, gas mask wearing haz-mat operatives, Frankenstein's monster, Edward Scissorhands, Jason Voorhees, Freddy Krueger, Morticia Addams, Harley Quinn and The Joker...

It^s probably symptomatic of our nervousness about PC matters that no-one has added to this thread.  So at the risk of upsetting someone^

Not upset, just disappointed by your reasoning.

...whose name you're scared to mention
He spends his cash on looking flash
And grabbing your attention!

[Tim]

2   If I assume the person is a Muslim woman, I would think that she would be uncomfortable having a man beside her and probably in physical contact, and I wouldn^t want to be embarrassed if I sat down next to her and she got up and moved away.

I have experienced problems with seating on a flight caused by a highly religious person (in this case an Orthodox Jewish man) refusing to sit in his allocated seat because it would place him next to a member of the opposite sex.  In that case, the issue was resolved by me offering to move to sit next to the attractive young woman in his place.

I might be wrong (please correct me if you think I am) but is it not a reasonable assumption that a woman wearing a religious face covering in public is doing so to avoid strange men looking at her?  And if she doesn't want a strange man looking at her, is it not a reasonable assumption also that she would feel uncomfortable to have a strange man sat next to her?

Having said all that, I probably would have plonked myself down next to her, especially if the train was busy, on the basis that I don't think that a religious preference is a good enough reason for having two seats to yourself (on the same basis that I enjoy asking people to move their bags off the seat on crowded trains out of Paddington)

[ChrisB]

I recently spent a couple of weeks going up to London everyday and I was appalled at the bad manners and lack of respect shown on the tube. Families with kids occupying seats when adults, some quite senior were left to stand. The parents showed absolutely no thought that maybe they should teach their kids to be mindful of others

Ha! You haven't got kids?....parents see them as precious these days, and insust they must sit in preference to allowing their elders to sit (I was briught up to give up my seat to adults when I was a kid, as were others I know). No longer...

[Bmblbzzz]

How old were the kids though? If toddlers, it's certainly tiring for them to stand on a train or bus for any length of time; but at that age, they can easily sit on parents' laps.

The whole business of offering your seat to someone is easier to get wrong than right, or at least easy to get blamed for whatever you do. I lived in Poland for several years and it's still common there for people ^ adults as well as children ^ to offer a seat to the elderly. I think the reason this persists is mostly because the buses are crowded as a matter of course; you expect not to get a seat at peak hours. But equally, I've known some people, offered a seat, react with shock. I guess they didn't feel as old as they looked to the offerer!

[grahame]

The whole business of offering your seat to someone is easier to get wrong than right ...

I will admit to having been quite shocked to be offered seats recently (perhaps I'm starting to show my age) ... and I recall about two years ago, there was a bit of an issue in parliament as to whether MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) should or should not have offered their seats in a full chamber to Jo Swinson - heavily pregnant and equalities minister.  I never did discuss that issue with her husband (our MP at the time - Duncan Hames) who I'm delighted to say was looking well, looking relaxed, and looking forward when I met him a couple of weeks ago.