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Author Topic: E-bike and E-scooter - ongoing issues and discussion (merged posts)  (Read 127115 times)
IndustryInsider
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« Reply #330 on: April 08, 2024, 13:41:28 »

The likes of Just Eat and Deliveroo need coming down on hard as their riders routinely use illegally modified e-bikes without helmets and lights at far too high speeds.
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« Reply #331 on: April 08, 2024, 15:20:03 »

The likes of Just Eat and Deliveroo need coming down on hard as their riders routinely use illegally modified e-bikes without helmets and lights at far too high speeds.

The likes of Just Eat and Deliveroo will just say not our problem, they "employ" a person to deliver stuff, the means by which that that person achieves the delivery is that persons
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« Reply #332 on: April 08, 2024, 16:38:07 »


The likes of Just Eat and Deliveroo will just say not our problem, they "employ" a person to deliver stuff, the means by which that that person achieves the delivery is that persons

It makes me wonder what stance the likes of Deliveroo and Just Eat have to their logos being emblazoned on illegally modified delivery e-bikes.  They give the impression of being pretty indifferent about it.
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« Reply #333 on: April 08, 2024, 20:13:26 »

The likes of Just Eat and Deliveroo need coming down on hard as their riders routinely use illegally modified e-bikes without helmets and lights at far too high speeds.

The likes of Just Eat and Deliveroo will just say not our problem, they "employ" a person to deliver stuff, the means by which that that person achieves the delivery is that persons

That’s quite right, which is why I said they need coming down on hard - with new employment laws if necessary.  That sort of thing is easy now we’ve left the EU» (European Union - about) isn’t it?!  Roll Eyes  I don’t blame the riders themselves on bit.
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« Reply #334 on: April 08, 2024, 20:36:01 »

I do - well, over the illegal ones.

The riders/owners are fully aware that they don't meet regulations yet they take the risk. No one else should be affected by a failure.
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« Reply #335 on: April 08, 2024, 23:37:55 »

IMHO (in my humble opinion), the rules need simplifying and then enforcing. I am in principle in favour of lightweight and relatively cheap electrically powered or electrically assisted vehicles. The carbon emissions are minimal as is the wear on roads and the road space taken up.
 The foolhardy  way in which many such machines are operated is a serious cause for concern, as are the number of dangerously modified vehicles.

I would suggest the following.

Type 1, pedal powered with battery assistance, and a maximum speed under battery power of 15 MPH. Treat as pedal cycles with no requirement for a helmet, formal training, or insurance. Maximum weight 35 kilos. No age limit.

Type 2, battery powered, with or without pedal assistance, maximum speed 30 MPH. Treat as petrol mopeds, moped licence needed. Helmet required and also insurance. Maximum weight 100 kilos. Rider must be at least 14.

Type 3, no limit on speed or weight. Treat as any other motorcycle full motorcycle licence and insurance required and a helmet.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #336 on: April 09, 2024, 09:10:47 »

I agree with most of this. Currently the law does not reflect the technology/transport opportunities eScooters/eBikes provide. The UK (United Kingdom) government should license more types of these, and demand insurance and MOTs (for eScooters/eBikes).

On a daily basis I see dangerously fast eScooters/eBikes (Bristol !!!) ridden by people without helmets and protective clothes.
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« Reply #337 on: April 09, 2024, 09:14:53 »

Said batteries need regulating too....
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broadgage
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« Reply #338 on: April 09, 2024, 14:27:16 »

Said batteries need regulating too....

In theory, I agree, but probably impossible in practice.
My proposed simplified regulations would be easy for the police or other authority to enforce. But how is a police officer to determine the difference between a safe battery and a dangerous one ? or between a correctly charged battery and a dangerously overcharged one ?
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #339 on: April 09, 2024, 14:34:18 »

They have to be banned unless regulation-use batteries are used, simple.
Registration maybe required as someone will die otherwise from use of unregulated battery explosion
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broadgage
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« Reply #340 on: April 09, 2024, 15:15:28 »

They have to be banned unless regulation-use batteries are used, simple.
Registration maybe required as someone will die otherwise from use of unregulated battery explosion

These batteries are invariably imported from places of doubtful reputation. The makers will apply whatever approval marks or certificates that are required for the intended market. including CE marking, UL listed, or any other standard.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #341 on: April 09, 2024, 15:57:22 »

They have to be banned unless regulation-use batteries are used, simple.
Registration maybe required as someone will die otherwise from use of unregulated battery explosion

These batteries are invariably imported from places of doubtful reputation. The makers will apply whatever approval marks or certificates that are required for the intended market. including CE marking, UL listed, or any other standard.

Better regulation and clearer laws will no doubt help - the current free-for-all cannot continue. 

If you pass laws that make JustEat and the like directly responsible for ensuring their riders use proper equipment (perhaps by supplying it, or offering incentive schemes through approved retailers) and don't break the law then that will help enormously IMHO (in my humble opinion).  Forcing them to provide proper contracts of employment rather than treating them as contractors and letting them get on with sourcing their own bikes and (lack of) equipment will also help.  Being paid per delivery only encourages them to buy unsuitable equipment and ride it irresponsibly.

It might end up making their businesses unviable which is tough.
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« Reply #342 on: April 10, 2024, 07:00:05 »

I must admit that my initial concern was that it appeared that the bike was about three steps from being able to board a train. Had it done so the result would not have been so photogenic.
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« Reply #343 on: April 10, 2024, 20:39:27 »

They have to be banned unless regulation-use batteries are used, simple.
Registration maybe required as someone will die otherwise from use of unregulated battery explosion

These batteries are invariably imported from places of doubtful reputation. The makers will apply whatever approval marks or certificates that are required for the intended market. including CE marking, UL listed, or any other standard.

Better regulation and clearer laws will no doubt help - the current free-for-all cannot continue. 

If you pass laws that make JustEat and the like directly responsible for ensuring their riders use proper equipment (perhaps by supplying it, or offering incentive schemes through approved retailers) and don't break the law then that will help enormously IMHO (in my humble opinion).  Forcing them to provide proper contracts of employment rather than treating them as contractors and letting them get on with sourcing their own bikes and (lack of) equipment will also help.  Being paid per delivery only encourages them to buy unsuitable equipment and ride it irresponsibly.

It might end up making their businesses unviable which is tough.

In London it would help if the delivery cyclists didn’t just use the pavement to ride on and the pedestrians are an inconvenient obstacle. This is especially true when there’s a cycle lane there as well which they aren’t using because then they’d have to stop at the lights. I don’t use these services because for mediacal reasons I try not to eat takeaway food.

Someone once ordered a vegetarian burger for me as I was housebound and the delivery bloke got my meal mixed up with someone else’s. I called the person who was listed on the bag of food I had and told them they were about to get my meal delivered. They said they’d tell the bloke when he got to them he’d have to go back. When my meal eventually turned up it wasn’t very warm.
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #344 on: September 09, 2024, 19:22:07 »

From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote

Officials in Brent have threatened to ban Lime's dockless e-bikes as poor parking has obstructed pavements

The screeching of rubber skidding on tarmac pierces the air on a quiet morning in north-west London. A young man on a Lime bike has suddenly overtaken a car in the next lane to dodge a roadworks sign. The driver gives him an earful.

Minutes before, a mum with a pram was telling me that dangerously driven e-bikes were a big worry - and annoyance.

Laura was taking her toddler to a park near their home in Kilburn, where the local council has told Lime they will ban their rental e-bikes next month unless they agree to a set of demands.

The council wants riders to park in cordoned-off areas only and increased fines for those who don’t.

Lime says it is willing to work with Brent Council but wants more of these parking zones to ensure it is still a convenient service for its customers in the borough.

Laura used to live in Paris where another controversial vehicle - rental e-scooters - were banned last year. Officials in Madrid announced a similar move last week and Melbourne banned them last month.

In all three cities, bad parking, as well as dangerous driving, were cited as key reasons why they had to go.

As Melbourne’s mayor Nicholas Reece explained: ”People don’t park them properly. They’re tipped, they’re scattered around the city like confetti, like rubbish, creating tripping hazards.”

A walk around Kilburn illustrates his point.

Someone has left their Lime bike in the middle of the pavement, in the way of a road crossing with tactile paving that is used by visually impaired people. They feel for the raised bumps, with a cane or through their shoes, which help them cross safely.


Dockless e-bikes obstruct access to tactile paving on a road crossing in Kilburn which is used by visually impaired people

Ali, who uses a motorised wheelchair, says using stations is difficult enough because lifts are often out of order. Dodging e-bikes to reach them is just another problem he's forced to deal with.

There are similar stories in other parts of Brent. Outside Neasden station, tightly parked bikes narrow the pavement to the point only one person can walk along it.

Pedro, a car mechanic in Dollis Hill, complains angrily that riders regularly leave their e-bikes in front of his garage. Two weeks ago the pavement was completely blocked. “Something needs to be done,” he says. “There are so many of them.”

One of the reasons why London feels inundated with rental e-bikes is that, unlike e-scooters, their numbers are not controlled by Transport for London (TfL» (Transport for London - about)).

The e-scooters are part of a national trial overseen by the government and organised by local authorities, like TfL, in British towns and cities.

Transport officials think scooters can help reduce carbon emissions - which they need to do as the government is legally committed to reaching net zero by 2050.

Town planners are facing the challenge of balancing efforts to tackle climate change and making sure communities are still safe and accessible.

One of the main issues is that rental e-bikes are not part of any centrally organised scheme. Operators are free to strike deals with individual councils and arrange how many bikes can be used in their areas, where they can be parked and if they need docking stations.

Two of the largest operators in London are Lime and Forest who operate a dockless model which means riders, depending on the borough they are in, can park them on almost any pavement.

Operators require riders to follow a set of rules designed to keep the bikes out of the way of pedestrians. But frequently, they are not.


Dockless e-bikes that are poorly parked or tipped over like these in Shoreditch have led to blind people becoming injured

The BBC has spoken to several charities and organisations which advocate for disabled people. All said the issue of badly parked e-bikes had become serious.

Sixty-nine-year-old Tesfai can’t see the scars on his skin - or the e-bikes strewn outside his south London home that caused them.  He is completely blind and has fallen over them repeatedly. Often he has to step into the road with his guide dog to get around them.

“It is scary,” he says, explaining how he has to listen for oncoming cars. “Lots of them are electric now, and quiet.”  He says even though helpful people sometimes move the e-bikes out of his way, the fear of tripping again means he now doesn’t leave the house as much. The library and pub he enjoys visiting feel further away.

Sarah Gayton, shared space co-ordinator at the National Federation of the Blind, said: “We want to see e-bikes stored off pavements, in lockable docking stations where they remain standing upwards, so visually impaired people can walk without having to fight these extra obstacles.”


Specific parking areas have been mentioned as a solution to overcrowding pavements like this one in Tower Hill

The charities which spoke to the BBC were keen for e-bikes to be parked off pavements altogether. That might involve converting parking bays currently used for cars into e-bike parking.

However, such a move might prove politically difficult for councils which have already angered some drivers with environmental policies like low-traffic neighbourhoods and the Ultra Low Emission Zone. For them, it may be easier to create on-pavement - but clearly marked and enforced - parking zones for dockless e-bikes.

Wandsworth Council says it will largely ban e-bikes being left anywhere on pavements once it has finished building 111 dedicated parking areas. The move was welcomed by operators Lime and Forest.

Dr Ian Philips, a specialist in sustainable transport at the University of Leeds, says data collected from dockless e-bikes could be very useful in choosing where parking bays are installed by councils.  He says that having them in areas poorly served by public transport might encourage more people to switch from cars to e-bikes.  He stresses that could help reduce carbon emissions.

The Mayor of London’s office said it was exploring a “coordinated scheme to manage dockless e-bikes and e-scooters” which could include tighter parking restrictions. No final decisions have been made.

Back in Kilburn, having dodged the badly parked e-bikes, Ali is heading into town on his motorised wheelchair. A well-dressed man on an e-scooter pulls up next to him. It’s his cousin Meisam who is visiting from Germany.  "We're in a rush!" he exclaims. The pair are off to enjoy London together.


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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
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