E-bike and E-scooter - ongoing issues and discussion (merged posts)

[whole diary]

[Red Squirrel]

...and it might be worth reiterating here that the kind of cycling infrastructure envisioned by Gear Change will also accommodate people with disabilities (using 3-wheelers, for example), as well as cargo bikes and e-scooters.

[broadgage]

Agree, I am a supporter of cycling, including electrically assisted cycles for the less fit, or for distances too great for unassisted cycling.
Three wheelers, e-scooters, cargo bikes, and similar lightweight vehicles powered by human effort, electricity, or both, should all be encouraged.

[TonyK]

There must be some bright ideas from those of us who don't live in large urban areas!

The roads around where I live, about midway between Tiverton and its eponymous Parkway, are very popular with the more Lycra-clad end of the cycling spectrum. At weekends, hardly a moment seems to pass without a peloton whizzing past, and our local farm shop cafe has simple but effective parking for many bicycles of the "lift with one finger" variety.

God only knows why it's so popular, because it scares the living daylights out of me. The main road towards Tiverton is largely OK, with the traditional dotted line forming a bike path with all the drains in it, but the lanes to be negotiated are narrow with high hedges, sufficiently so as to hide from view the tractor towing a tank of slurry on the way to the antisocial digester, about to appear from around the bend. The surface of the lanes mirrors that of the moon to a large degree, having borne the double whammy of heavy use by agricultural vehicles and the woes of a cash-strapped council. The main road in the direction of the station is very narrow with no pavement or refuge for large parts, and pretty hilly at times for the less athletic. (Actually, it is just as hilly for the athletic, but they don't get off and push). It is pretty busy, with the occasional bus, more farm vehicles, delivery vans and the sort of idiot who thinks a 60 mph limit is something that must be exceeded whether it's safe or not, sometimes driving one of the farm vehicles or vans. Nothing I can think of would transform this into a safe and inviting cycle route for the non-Tour-de-France rider, other than a parallel road for cycles only.

There is, close by, the Grand Western Canal. That makes for a pleasant, gentler, ride. It's a circuitous route to the station, but flat and in reasonable order, and a joy to trundle along on the colder, wetter days when pedestrians, fishermen and picnickers are at home. I haven't been there for a few months, because it is impossible to stay 2 metres apart on a 1-metre towpath without getting very wet. In normal times, fishermen complain about cyclists and canoeists, pedestrians complain about fishermen and cyclists, and cyclists complain about pedestrians, fishermen, and the pinch points at bridges. I always slow done or stop (most pedestrians are faster than me anyway) because it takes less time than an argument, and doesn't leave the same sour taste. The owners of the horse-drawn barge complain about all of the above, but only if they misbehave or act intolerantly. Most folk respect them and especially the horses, and even the lunatic fringe of the angling fraternity realise that the boat doesn't have brakes.

So I applaud the move to make all this better, but consider that without solving the problems that face the ordinary cyclists, e-bikes would only make things slightly faster, not easier or safer. I would love to be proven wrong, though, and shall let you know how I get on when my e-bike arrives.

[Bmblbzzz]

...and it might be worth reiterating here that the kind of cycling infrastructure envisioned by Gear Change will also accommodate people with disabilities (using 3-wheelers, for example), as well as cargo bikes and e-scooters.

In other words, they should be nothing like this (new this year, I think) bridge over the canal in Selly Oak. I'm not sure what standards it was, or was meant to be, constructed to, but it presents quite a challenge to the woman in the e-trike (who can't ride a 2-wheeler, can't walk too far, but can apparently swim well... though probably not in the canal).
https://youtu.be/f48-J1Vl4Lo

[CyclingSid]

...fishermen complain about cyclists and canoeists, pedestrians complain about fishermen and cyclists, and cyclists complain about pedestrians, fishermen, and the pinch points at bridges.

I think the only group you have missed is the dog walkers without a lead (for the dog?)

[TonyK]

I think the only group you have missed is the dog walkers without a lead (for the dog?)

Sorry, CyclingSid, I stand corrected. I thought of myself as a six-legged pedestrian when we had a dog, but you are right. A whole new sub-group, who are also complained about by the swans. It's generally a peaceful place, though, and part of the way towards the basin, one is able to transfer to the old railway that used to run from Tiverton Junction to Tivvy itself, for a straighter route into town.

[grahame]

I am reminded of "Cycle facility of the month" jump in at http://wcc.crankfoot.xyz/facility-of-the-month/August2012.htm as a random example.

If you're a highways engineer, you could learn a lot from the (amazing, negative) works of others.   In places, you could learn a lot from talking to the cyclists too.

Getting through Telford - picture taken on my way to the ACoRP^▸ (Association of Community Rail Partnerships) (as it was called then) annual awards yesterday, where some particularly effective  writing from certain parties here (thank you) propelled me to silver medal in the "Outstanding Volunteer" category.  All about teamwork ...

Oh - Telford.   Straight though for road traffic.  Straight through for trains.  Bends gentle enough for walkers at their pace. Cyclists please slow down in the middle of your journey to take the corners ...

[TonyK]

Oh - Telford.   Straight though for road traffic.  Straight through for trains.  Bends gentle enough for walkers at their pace. Cyclists please slow down in the middle of your journey to take the corners ...

Perfect!

[grahame]

From web sites

Faresaver

Folding bicycles, which are safely and securely stowed in the designated luggage area in a suitable bag or box, are generally permitted onto our buses if the driver believes that there is sufficient luggage space available. Fixed-frame bicycles are generally not carried on our buses however.

First

Folding bicycles are welcome on board our buses, however we do ask that you fold them and place them in an appropriate space. For everyone?s comfort and safely, we ask you to make sure they?re not blocking the aisles or access to any seats.

However there are instances when it may not be possible to accept folding bikes, for example:
* If there isn?t enough space on the bus
* When your folding bicycle could make the inside of the bus or its seats dirty, or could cause discomfort to other customers
Due to space and safety considerations, standard non-folding bicycles cannot be carried on our buses.

Stagecoach

In some areas, you can take your bike on the bus. Please contact the local team in your area and they'll be happy to advise. However, if your bike folds up, can be stored in a suitable bag or box, can fit within the luggage pen on the bus, and you can lift it in and out yourself, it can be brought on at the driver's discretion.

A heated conversation elsewhere has suggested that electric assisted bikes are not allowed on buses - something to do with the batteries not being carried has been suggested.   But as I read it, the restrictions are to do with folding (or not) bikes and not whether they have a battery fitted - indeed, on Faresaver's rules of bag or box, if there's a battery restriction the driver would need to look in the bag to establish whether a particular cycle could be carried.

It strikes me that if you're not going to allow batteries to be carried on buses you're going to rule out pretty much all modern electronics ...

I will admit to a personal interest as I now ride a foldable electric cycle; no problem (outside lockdowns) taking it on the train - not tried it on the bus, though.

[CyclingSid]

... electric mobility scooters? Disability Discrimination Act?

[TaplowGreen]

... electric mobility scooters? Disability Discrimination Act?

How do you stow one safely on a busy bus?

[CyclingSid]

On buses in the Reading area you just drive them on.

[CyclingSid]

Apologies for any confusion (to myself and others). I sometimes am not clear on the demarcation between electric wheelchairs and mobility scooters. On reflection, I probably think it is an electric wheelchair if it has joystick control and a mobility scooter if it is steered by something akin to handlebars (or in some parts of Reading can be ridden down the road by two kids). There are mobility scooters that appear to be small enough to be folded down and put in the boot of a car, which I have seen on buses. There are some electric wheelchairs that are bigger then mobility scooters.

The main issue was that it is a machine with a large battery that can get on a bus.

[Surrey 455]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)

Anyone given an e-scooter as a Christmas gift should return it, a senior Met officer has said.

The devices have proved popular gifts even though privately-owned e-scooters are illegal to use on roads or in public places.

Ch Supt Simon Ovens said buying an e-scooter as a present was "crazy" because they were a danger to riders and others.

"They're simply not built for our roads," he added.

Later he adds

Ch Supt Ovens said he was not against new technology being introduced but Scotland Yard "really don't want more deaths".

The Met is keen to support a trial on rental e-scooters as they would be "a bit safer and more compliant", he added.

[Red Squirrel]

From Bristol 247:

POLICE PRAISE E-SCOOTER TRIAL AFTER FEARING 'TWISTED METAL AND BODIES SCATTERED ALL OVER THE HIGHWAY'

Police chiefs have been won over by the region's e-scooter trials after initially fearing 'twisted metal and bodies scattered all over the highway', it has been revealed.

Avon & Somerset Constabulary traffic management unit boss Richard McKiernan told a remote meeting that he had expected carnage on roads and pavements during the West of England Combined Authority's (WECA^» (West of England Combined Authority - about)'s) pilot project.

Instead it has been a 'policing non-event' and he has been 'massively reassured' by the trial, which metro mayor Tim Bowles says will become vital in how we move around the region for generations to come.

...continues