E-bike and E-scooter - ongoing issues and discussion (merged posts)

[whole diary]

[broadgage]

Who is going to regulate this? I can't see the police being interested, as most traffic units have been cut almost to the point of non-existence.

Very little regulation is needed in my view, no more than applies to cycles whether electrically assisted or otherwise.
Users should IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) be subjected to the same rules as cycles.
An E scooter should be subject to the same limits on speed and power as are applied to electrically assisted cycles.

[broadgage]

It seems eccentric that on this island, exceptionally, these vehicles are not considered safe.

I was, as is my wont, amused by the use of good ol' US Customary units. 15.5 mph is, of course, 25km/h in real money.

The issue of potholes and poor road surfaces is an important one. If a car hits a pothole, the driver is unlikely to be injured. If you hit a pothole on a two-wheeled vehicle the consequences are likely to be rather worse. I fell off an (unpowered) adult-sized scooter recently, and ended up with a shiner and four stitches in my head.

I agree. There are some risks, as your unfortunate mishap illustrates, but not excessive if compared to the risks involved in cycling or walking.
The administrative class are no doubt looking forward to a whole new mode of transport to regulate and control.

[johnneyw]

I fell off an (unpowered) adult-sized scooter recently, and ended up with a shiner and four stitches in my head.

I'm sure I wasn't the only one to read that and think "ouch"!

[TonyK]

Who is going to regulate this? I can't see the police being interested, as most traffic units have been cut almost to the point of non-existence.

Very little regulation is needed in my view, no more than applies to cycles whether electrically assisted or otherwise.
Users should IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) be subjected to the same rules as cycles.
An E scooter should be subject to the same limits on speed and power as are applied to electrically assisted cycles.

So far, I have only seen mention of two deaths in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) attributed to e-scooters, and in both cases, the rider was the deceased. It will need either quite a few more riders, or a couple of pedestrians to die or be badly hurt before we get anywhere close to regulation. Possibly a single MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) could be the catalyst, we shall have to wait and see.

[Marlburian]

... An E scooter should be subject to the same limits on speed and power as are applied to electrically assisted cycles.

Both have limits set by the manufacturers but, as I suggested a few posts ago, there are various hacks on the web to override these and, in the case of scooters, attain speeds of up to 40mph or more. Also already mentioned is the danger of those small wheels not coping with poor road surfaces.

Sure, they seem a good way of commuting if ridden sensibly but, as with other modes of transport, it takes just a few idiots to give them a bad reputation. Not sure if they have audible warnings of approach, and at night-time any worthwhile rear lamps would have to be on the rider.

[broadgage]

Anyone riding an illegally modified scooter on public roads should be prosecuted, as riders of unduly fast or powerful electrically assisted cycles can be.
If they kill anyone, a prosecution for manslaughter might be reasonable.
I doubt however that it will be a significant problem, any more than is the case with cycles.

The wearing of a safety hat should be encouraged, but not be obligatory, as is the case with cycles.
Lights should be a requirement on public roads after dark, and in view of the small size of these scooters might be better affixed to the clothing of the rider and not to the scooter.

On private property they may do largely as they please, and break their fool necks if they so wish.

[TonyK]

Anyone riding an illegally modified scooter on public roads should be prosecuted, as riders of unduly fast or powerful electrically assisted cycles can be.
If they kill anyone, a prosecution for manslaughter might be reasonable.
I doubt however that it will be a significant problem, any more than is the case with cycles.

The law has yet to catch up with the bicycle. The last cyclist to be prosecuted after knocking down a pedestrian with fatal results was charged with causing bodily harm by "wanton or furious driving or racing, or other wilful misconduct", contrary to the Offences Against the Person Act 1861.

[broadgage]

If these E scooters are legalised then I foresee a problem if people expect to charge them on trains.
The cost of the energy to charge them is trivial, but it might overload a system designed for cellphones and the odd laptop.
And the owners might expect to place the E scooters on seats or in other unsuitable places in order to be within reach of a socket outlet.

Also possible conflicts if people expect to charge them at stations. (I would be inclined to allow this)

These are not insurmountable problems, and I remain in favour of allowing and even encouraging E scooter use, much greener than driving, and the machines are easier to carry and to stow on a train than are cycles.

[grahame]

If these E scooters are legalised then I foresee a problem if people expect to charge them on trains.

Yes - mirroring the massive problem already with people wanting to charge electric cycles on trains? 

There seems at times a mismatch between what people want and what is provided on electric charging.   Provision in town centre car parks and at stations for cars is perhaps underused as people charge up at home and maybe at work if they drive all the way.  Expect no different for electric cycles and scooters?    Unlike phones which are carrier around and in use all day at home and in the office, so less convenient to charge there, vehicles tend to be idle and chargeable at both journey ends.

Rapid charge points for car at service areas / stations / cafes beside trunk roads make sense for longer journeys in those vehicles. Long distance e-cycling and e-scootering is unlikely (?) to be a massive way people get around.

[broadgage]

I have met people who take every opportunity to charge cellphones and laptops any place other than at home, in order to save on their home electricity bill.
They are unable to understand that the saving is minute.

If such persons acquire E scooters ?

Look at the trouble some drivers go to in order to obtain petrol a penny cheaper, if in the future their transport need is met by electric power, then consider the trouble to which they might go for free electricity.

[Red Squirrel]

If such persons acquire E scooters ?

'Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?'
'Supposing it didn't,' said Pooh after careful thought.
Piglet was comforted by this.

A A Milne

[Bmblbzzz]

Rapid charge points for car at service areas / stations / cafes beside trunk roads make sense for longer journeys in those vehicles. Long distance e-cycling and e-scootering is unlikely (?) to be a massive way people get around.

I'm no expert on e-bikes but I'm fairly sure there aren't any using the various types of rapid charging which e-cars have. They're just charged from a standard mains socket, which does the job in a reasonable time because the batteries are so much smaller than those in a car or van.

[TonyK]

They're just charged from a standard mains socket...

...like the ones on trains.

[grahame]

They're just charged from a standard mains socket...

...like the ones on trains.

Just taken a look at the charger that came with my e-byke. 90 Watts ... like the one for larger laptops.   For comparison - hairdryer 1500 to 2000 watts. Heating hair rollers, 400 watts. Curling irons 200 watts. Slow cooker 200 watts. Microwave 800 watts. Iron 1200 watts. Toaster 1000 watts. Kettle 1800 Watts.

Talking to rail staff in the past, they say it is surprising how often people trip out the power in particular reference made to hairdryers, but I don't think that the charger for an e-byke, or e-scooter, would be a major problem ... that's assuming that mine is typical.

[broadgage]

The power demand for charging an E scooter is indeed modest, anything from 25 watts up to 200 watts.
Still might be a bit much for a system sized for cellphones and the odd laptop, remembering that the E scooters will be in addition to phones and laptops, not instead of these.