Revenue Protection Officer On Train Authority

[whole diary]

[grahame]

I give you this example,

[snip]

My concern was to get home resonably cheaply and off course lawfully, it would appear that train travel might become too complex in the future.

A 'classic' example where discretion and understanding by staff, who for the most part appreciate that the system is complex and even knowledgable passengers will sometime not know.  And a note of the fear of being caught breaking a rule / condition you didn't know / understand can put people off using the train at all.  Thank goodness that the vast majority of staff who issue and check tickets have the discretion and understanding - with (at the same time) a willingness to enforce where it's beyond reasonable doubt to them that someone's trying to evade.   Alas - it take just one or two "jobs worth"s out of hundreds to put people off.

A few years back, on a Thursday, I was travelling from Filton Abbey Wood to Melksham (in the days of few trains, but there WAS one when I wanted it for once).  I queued at the kiosk at Filton and bought my ^10 ticket ... yes, a quick check said "Filton Abbey Wood" and "Melksham", price seemed about right, and it was checked fine on my first train.

Ticket check on the Bristol to Chippenham train - and the train manager (I think) was not a happy chappie. Turned our my ticket had the letters "WUP" on it - weekend 1st upgrade - and wasn't a ticket at all.  He was all for charging me for another ticket, taking the view that I didn't have a valid ticket, and that it's the passenger's responsibility to make sure they've been sold the right ticket for the journey.   He made me feel really "small"; he made me feel stupid that I hadn't realised that the ticket was wrong.   He did say "I will let you off this time" when I asked why on earth a Weekend First Upgrade (which he explained to me it was) had been issued on a Thursday.  And he put the fear of God into me about the ticket check to come on the TransWilts train, saying I must buy a ticket for that leg at Chippenham because I was unticketed.

I decided I didn't want to pay First Great Western "again" at Chippenham, and took the bus to Melksham instead. Took to using the bus more and the train less for a time. And what a wonderful example / story of how things can go wrong that can frighten others.   What a sad decision by the train manager on the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) all because - it transpired - I had been sold the wrong thing at Filton and paid the railway 60p less (it transpired) than I should have paid.

I admit - in law - I was wrong. I had failed to ensure that I had a correct and valid ticket for my journey, and I'm aware that ignorance is no defence.

[PhilWakely]

As we are discussing the subject of seat reservations, there is a question I have been meaning to ask for some time and each time something else more important has cropped up and I''ve let it slip... So, here goes.....

How do the booking engines allocate seat reservations? I know that the questions about preference are asked, but are those questions there simply to give you a feeling that those preferences are actually taken into consideration with the allocation simply done on 'start at one end and fill it up' basis?

I ask because it is extremely rare that my preference is achieved. I remember one occasion when I booked as soon as an Advance became available, 12 weeks in advance, I requested a window seat at a table, facing forward and ended up with seat number 2 - an airline style, aisle seat with my back to the direction of travel. I rejected that seat when booking and tried twice more but both times still being given the same allocation, so I reluctantly accepted it. Then, on the day of travel discovered that only a third of the coach had reservation labels with four seats around a table left unreserved (apparently).

[Fourbee]

I requested a window seat at a table, facing forward and ended up with seat number 2 - an airline style, aisle seat with my back to the direction of travel. I rejected that seat when booking and tried twice more but both times still being given the same allocation, so I reluctantly accepted it.

I seem to remember having problems when setting certain preferences together in the past. In particular, for table seats setting forwards or backwards on it's own used to give you a table seat if it was available (obviously it would be down to the system then if you got the aisle or window, but it would be a table) but adding aisle or window to that would force an airline seat.

[didcotdean]

The default on non-advance tickets is now not to allocate a reserved seat, so having one would be a conscious choice.

The current system is a bit haphazard in matching needs in that I always request an airline aisle seat but about half the time end up getting one at a table first time round. Sometimes this can be overridden by using the other choices, but the best one in doing this (near the toilets) has disappeared from at least some systems.

[thetrout]

Oh dear... I sense trouble on the line ahead...

Welcome to the forum. I hope your first post was Tongue in Cheek and set to provoke a reaction...

In all seriousness, I recall someone on this forum saying that a member of staff made them move to their reserved seat (and threw someone who was in said reserved seat out of it)... Tried a quick search but can't find the exact post or I would have quoted it here...

I wish you the best of luck with your new job. As others have said, although I will be a little more realistic, You are going to need it if you have this attitude... Trying to 'enforce' these things is going to make a misery of your day... There is this dreadful term called a "power trip" where someone in a position of authority uses said authority to feel superior to others... It is not a good thing and won't lead to happy employment... Of the RPIs^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) I've encountered I'd say 0% try this sort of tactic...

Without telling you how to do your job; I am going to instead suggest you converse your efforts to those who knowingly sit in First Class and say "We'll move if / when challenged." Or those who hog the toilets to dodge the fare when someone with a medical condition is stood outside getting increasingly red faced with pain from waiting... Or those who pretend they've made an honest mistake when passengers have seen them claim this "mistake" several times over...

Maybe after that you should try and build a rapport with your regular passengers... They are probably fed up with some of the chancers as above and would willingly provide you details of where/when to find them

Back to tongue in cheek... If you decide to go down the road of trying to enforce silly things then here is a list you can write me up for in advance...

• Soiling the railway. I use the train toilets... ALOT... I spill my drinks... ALOT...
• Existing in the wrong class of accommodation from that held on the ticket... I like to visit the Buffet Car for my complimentary drinks... I often use the toilets which sometimes are only available in Standard Class... Finally I occasionally sit with my friends in Standard Class when I hold a First Class ticket... Occasionally I've been moved back to First Class and told my friends can join me...
• Using any article to reproduce sound... It helps to talk to staff when ordering drinks in the Buffet Car or asking for an additional ticket etc etc
• Using the wrong train for a "Booked train only" ticket... Bristol - Newcastle on a train with no working toilets? Not happening!
• Sat in an Aisle Seat when reservation is for a Window Seat? Also not happening!

Finally... Can you please advise me what I should do if my Advance Ticket states Coach * Seat *** and how/where I should sit?

[paul7575]

Finally... Can you please advise me what I should do if my Advance Ticket states Coach * Seat *** and how/where I should sit?

I'm fairly sure that is a rhetorical part of your question.  Many TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) (not just ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC)) as mentioned above) sell advance fares on services on a 'booked train only' basis; and that is how their advance reservations will be marked.   Southern and SWT^▸ (South West Trains) also do this, I think London Midland do as well.

Paul

[ChrisB]

Chiltern do too....any seat on booked train. Oddly, doesn't guarantee a seat like other Advances, so you can end up standing on your booked train

[Fourbee]

Maybe after that you should try and build a rapport with your regular passengers... They are probably fed up with some of the chancers as above and would willingly provide you details of where/when to find them

Once a guard was walking through checking tickets on the North Downs (rather than just selling to those who make themselves known these days). 2 passengers who boarded with me were not going to offer anything (i.e. making the guard think she'd already checked them). As she was just about to walk past them, she caught my eye and I made a deliberate expression (semi-scowl/nod type thing) and she went back and sold the aforementioned pair some tickets (who didn't have any and in my view were trying to chance it).

[IndustryInsider]

Chiltern do too....any seat on booked train. Oddly, doesn't guarantee a seat like other Advances, so you can end up standing on your booked train

As indeed do FGW^▸ (First Great Western) on Oxford to London advances for services operated by a Turbo.

[bobm]

I remember one occasion when I booked as soon as an Advance became available, 12 weeks in advance, I requested a window seat at a table, facing forward and ended up with seat number 2 - an airline style, aisle seat with my back to the direction of travel. I rejected that seat when booking and tried twice more but both times still being given the same allocation, so I reluctantly accepted it. Then, on the day of travel discovered that only a third of the coach had reservation labels with four seats around a table left unreserved (apparently).

The trick is to keep that reservation in your basket and ask for the same journey again - as that seat is being held for you, the system will be forced to offer you another seat.  When you get one you like, delete the others before paying.  That is what I do with sleeper berths to try to get one that isn't over the wheels.

[Brucey]

I notice Virgin Trains East Coast now allow customers to edit their seat reservations online for free, even on advance tickets.  It is also possible after collecting the tickets.

Just edited my seat for my trip to the (still not yet Republic of) Scotland this week.  Already have the tickets and old seat reservation in my hand.  They email out a new booking code but do not require any coupons to be collected - apparently that number is my seat reservation.

Imagine me trying to kick someone out of seat B13 because I have an orange coupon for seat B42 and a scrap of paper that says ABCDE123

I will look with interest to see if the on-train ticket checks attempt to enforce sitting in your reserved seat.  My ticket (collected from King's Cross) has an Aztec code printed in the top right corner, so it will be interesting to see whether/if this gets scanned anywhere and whether it reveals my new or old seat reservation.

[ellendune]

Just edited my seat for my trip to the (still not yet Republic of) Scotland this week.  Already have the tickets and old seat reservation in my hand. 

No the SNP has no plans to become a republic they plan to keep the Monarchy. So the correct term would be the Kingdom of Scotland

[Chris from Nailsea]

... and our present monarch would then become Queen Elizabeth the First of Scotland. 

In return for James the Sixth of Scotland becoming James the First of England. 

[stuving]

... and our present monarch would then become Queen Elizabeth the First of Scotland. 

But that's precisely what she is now, of course.

[Fourbee]

They email out a new booking code but do not require any coupons to be collected - apparently that number is my seat reservation.

I wonder if the extra coupon(s) could be collected if it were to be tried?