Revenue Protection Officer On Train Authority

[whole diary]

[Penzance-Paddington]

Bignosemac

Please don't worry, those who avoid paying for the fare due will be facing the appropriate action. As I have mentioned earlier, discretion will be used if there are any mitigating circumstances. However, those who choose to break the NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) will be penalised accordingly. We are also here to provide customer service and are representatives of the company. I look forward to welcoming you on one of my services soon.

[JayMac]

Again though, I ask where in the NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) (or, more properly the Railway Byelaws) does it say that failing to sit in your reserved seat can be penalised?

[Penzance-Paddington]

Again though, I ask where in the NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) (or, more properly the Railway Byelaws) does it say that failing to sit in your reserved seat can be penalised?

I advise you to follow the advice of your ticket. If you have a ticket marked "ONLY VALID WITH RESERVATIONS", I advise you to use these reservations.

[Chris from Nailsea]

To be fair, though, Penzance-Paddington, that doesn't answer the question.

What happens if anyone doesn't take your 'advice'?

[Penzance-Paddington]

To be fair, though, Penzance-Paddington, that doesn't answer the question.

What happens if anyone doesn't take your 'advice'?

I'd imagine it would result in either a Penalty Fare or an MG11^▸ (Form to take a statement for use in court) being sent.

[grahame]

It's very rare indeed for me to use advance tickets ... so this comment relates to reservations with flexible tickets.

If I'm pretty sure which train I'm going to travel on and suspect it might be busy, I'll reserve a seat and if indeed on the chosen train I'll probably use it - usually I feel a bit guilty if I don't.   However, I can think of five occasions I've travelled on a train with a reservation, and chosen to sit in a different seat.

a) A window table seat booked ... got on to find a virtually empty carriage, but with the three other seats at the table very much occupied by mum and two daughters crayoning papers all over the table, and mother looking at wit's end

b) As (a), but three businessmen having a meeting

c) Airline seat pair, again virtually empty, person of ample proportions spilling into "my" seat

d) Airline seat pair again - I moved to avoid the unwanted (inebriated?) attentions of the second person.

e) Spotted a group of friends while going to my seat and joined them

I have also sat down (not reserved) and moved rapidly when I found the seat I had chosen to be damp ....

So I've treated such reservations as guidance - and I know that if that's done too much it makes a mockery of the whole reservation system but, really Penzance-Paddington, would you really have advised me that I should sit in my allotted seat should I have been on an advance?

[Chris from Nailsea]

I'd imagine it would result in either a Penalty Fare or an MG11^▸ (Form to take a statement for use in court) being sent.

On what specific legal basis?

Or, as you appear to acknowledge, this is just what you 'imagine' might happen?

Have you actually had any training from any Train Operating Company as a Revenue Protection Officer yet?

[Penzance-Paddington]

This is my final reply to this thread, which has run off topic. Grahame, I'd advise if someone is in your reserved seat and is refusing to move from it that you inform a member of the on-train team promptly. I'd like to thank those who have answered my initial question in this thread.

Kind Regards

P-P

[grahame]

This is my final reply to this thread, which has run off topic. Grahame, I'd advise if someone is in your reserved seat and is refusing to move from it that you inform a member of the on-train team promptly. I'd like to thank those who have answered my initial question in this thread.

Kind Regards

P-P

Thank you for that advise.   It's not the question I asked though, as only in one of case was my reserved seat taken up by anyone else (and then partially - and they couldn't physically help it as thy spilled from their reserved seat).

[JayMac]

This is my final reply to this thread, which has run off topic.

Has it? You were the first person to mention it was 'mandatory' to sit in your reserved seat. That statement is what has been challenged. What has been consistently asked is what specific piece of legislation backs up your statement?

I really do hope that your training encompasses, and you fully understand, the extent of the legal powers you may be granted, the legislation that backs them up, and the correct procedures for enforcing them.

At the moment that doesn't appear to be the case. Particularly as you seem to think you can issue a Penalty Fare for failing to sit in a reserved seat. Where specifically in section 130 of The Railways Act 1993, The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 1994 and The Penalty Fares Rules 2002 does it allow for such a penalty to be issued?

I'm gravely concerned that FGW^▸ (First Great Western)/GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) appear to be training somebody up who seems hellbent on punishing people for not sitting in their reserved seat. So much so that I'm seriously considering bringing this thread to the attention of FGW/GWR and Transport Focus.

[Timmer]

This is my final reply to this thread, which has run off topic. Grahame, I'd advise if someone is in your reserved seat and is refusing to move from it that you inform a member of the on-train team promptly. I'd like to thank those who have answered my initial question in this thread.

Kind Regards

P-P

It may well be you final reply on this thread but I bet you come back to read further replies to what you have started.

I don't doubt what you say is true that you are training to be an RPO. If you are, then you will/are being throughly trained in what you legally can and cannot enforce because what you enforce has to be watertight against a legal challenge. A good RPO will know what is legally enforceable and will do a good job for their employer obtaining revenue without going on what they think is enforceable but what the law says so it doesn't end up in court.

In this day and age of modern media, many now know their rights thanks to a quick search on the net pertaining to a situation they find themselves in; for example parking on private land. Thanks to you bringing this topic up, this conversation is now available for all to see. So far what various posters to this thread have tried to get from you is the legal, not what you think is legally enforceable, ruling in which you intend to prosecute which you have failed to do. Instead you have walked away.

I hope you don't abuse your newly given powers and start moving people just to give yourself a 'kick' picking on those who don't know what you are doing is not legally enforceable.

In all my years of travelling up and down the country using Advance tickets on most TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company), I can count on one hand the number of times I have actually sat in the reserved seat that I was given by the online booking system. Why? It wasn't where I wanted to sit because I couldn't choose where I wanted to sit. I have never once been challenged.

Thanks to East Coast (now Virgin East Coast) and now Virgin West Coast, I can now choose my seat when I book online. Even then, that's no guarantee I will sit there if I find there are noisy passengers nearby or there is plenty of space elsewhere in the carriage. I hope GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) introduce 'choose your seat' as it's a good system to have; especially with the reduction in First class seating.

[TaplowGreen]

Good luck with the new job P-P, as you can see you will be kept on your toes! 

[Western Pathfinder]

Good luck with the new job P-P, as you can see you will be kept on your toes! 

That goes form me as well good luck your going to need it !.

[Zoe]

The terms and conditions of advance tickets require that you sit in the reserved seat shown on the ticket.  Would it not be the case that if you break this then you could be treated as not having a valid ticket and prosecuted under byelaw 18?  The same rule also says that you must travel in the class shown on the ticket and I don't think there would be much argument over a prosecution for sitting in First Class with a Standard Advance.

Also would there be any possibily of a Regulation of Railways Act prosecution if you were told that you are travelling without a valid ticket (due to not sitting in your reserved seat) and refused to immediately pay for a Standard Anytime Single?

[JayMac]

If I buy online from FGW^▸ (First Great Western)/GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) can you show me the link to these terms and conditions where it says I must sit in my reserved seat?

If you go through the booking process you get:

https://tickets.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/gw/en/tickettandc/W/W2T.aspx