First Great Western prosecutes 13 people for travelling without train tickets

[whole diary]

[Oxonhutch]

Rail industry rules are complex and hard to understand - even for staff and wannabe staff, it seems.  But those are the rules the industry has come up with, and they really should have their own training and systems in order, rather that getting it wrong and then having it corrected later.   If the answer is "but the rules are too complex and there are bound to be mistakes",  then perhaps the rules or the training should be questioned, and not the passenger - especially the passenger who's actually following the rules!

I have always followed the maxim of rules being for the guidance of wise men - and the adherence of fools.

[ChrisB]

Take a pic of the 'exact fare only' message

[Penzance-Paddington]

Here's an interesting scenario that my daughter has apparently, in the last few minutes, been caught up in............

Having been off work for a number of years due to a medical episode, she has at long last been past fit to work and got herself a part-time job. This requires her to catch the busiest train of the day, 0813 PIN-EXC. The TM^‡(resolve) usually plants himself in the rear cab and stays there, except for door and platform duties - leaving the gateline staff at EXC to take any unpaid fares.

This morning, daughter goes to the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) at PIN, to find a 'exact fare only, no card payments' message on the screen. Fine, you say, except her fare with a railcard is ^1.85 - and the TVM is rejecting all coins with a lower than 10p demomination. It is one of the sensible machines that returns all coins if you have paid too much (eg 2x^1 in this scenario), rather than issue a ^1.85 ticket and not give change!

So, she is unable to buy her ticket from a 'working' TVM and unable to see the TM. There must have been another TVM further down the line that was not working as the queue at the gateline was fairly long. When it was her turn to speak to the person on the gate, he was adamant her railcard (a Disabled Persons one) was not valid on that train and that she had ample opportunity to pay the full ^2.80 fare, so wanted to issue a penalty fare. She got quite worried by this attitude (and given her medical condition, that was not surprising), but it was only when a colleague of the member of staff pointed out that the Disabled Persons Railcard WAS valid that she was allowed through having paid her ^1.85

If a passenger has a Disabled Person's Railcard, then they may purchase their ticket from the on-board team (ONLY IF THEIR DISABILIY PREVENTS THEM FROM USING THE STATION TICKET FACILITIES - DOES YOUR DAUGHTER HAVE MOBILITY ISSUES/ISSUES WITH STANDING OR ANY LEARNING DIFFICULTIES?). May I ask how long the journey your daughter made was? Also, which route was it on? Train Managers frequently walk through the train to check tickets/provide customer service.

[Penzance-Paddington]

EDIT: I've just realised she was travelling from Pinhoe to Exeter Central. There are no stops in between and this journey does take around 5 minutes. What time of day was she travelling? If it was an off-peak time then the TM^‡(resolve) would be likely to have been able to pass through all of the train.

[JayMac]

If a passenger has a Disabled Person's Railcard, then they may purchase their ticket from the on-board team (ONLY IF THEIR DISABILIY PREVENTS THEM FROM USING THE STATION TICKET FACILITIES - DOES YOUR DAUGHTER HAVE MOBILITY ISSUES/ISSUES WITH STANDING OR ANY LEARNING DIFFICULTIES?). May I ask how long the journey your daughter made was? Also, which route was it on? Train Managers frequently walk through the train to check tickets/provide customer service.

May I suggest you answer some questions about your bona fides before asking personal questions of forum members.

[PhilWakely]

If a passenger has a Disabled Person's Railcard, then they may purchase their ticket from the on-board team (ONLY IF THEIR DISABILIY PREVENTS THEM FROM USING THE STATION TICKET FACILITIES - DOES YOUR DAUGHTER HAVE MOBILITY ISSUES/ISSUES WITH STANDING OR ANY LEARNING DIFFICULTIES?). May I ask how long the journey your daughter made was? Also, which route was it on? Train Managers frequently walk through the train to check tickets/provide customer service.

EDIT: I've just realised she was travelling from Pinhoe to Exeter Central. There are no stops in between and this journey does take around 5 minutes. What time of day was she travelling? If it was an off-peak time then the TM^‡(resolve) would be likely to have been able to pass through all of the train.

I am not prepared to discuss my daughter's circumstances here, suffice to say that she legally carries a Disabled Persons Railcard. I also note that following your first response, you apparently took your time to read my post again. However, you still failed to pick out the following two sentences....

This requires her to catch the busiest train of the day, 0813 PIN-EXC. The TM usually plants himself in the rear cab and stays there, except for door and platform duties - leaving the gateline staff at EXC to take any unpaid fares.

Even if she tried, she would not have found the TM in the 5 minutes travel time she had. At no point did my daughter attempt to defraud the train company as she attempted to pay her fare at every possible opportunity.

I should point out that in a subsequent 'phone call from my daughter, she told me that she did receive an apology from the member of gateline staff in question.

[Penzance-Paddington]

I only asked about the nature of your daughter's disability as disabled railcard holders are only allowed to buy on board if their disability prevents them from using the station ticket facilities. 08:13 would be a peak time so I will accept that the TM^‡(resolve) may not have passed your daughter. It sounds as though after careful consideration, the gateline staff did the correct thing apologising to your daughter. However you have to understand that many people a day make similar excuses for not having a ticket and these cases need to be checked thoroughly before an RPO makes a decision on their course of action.

Penzance-Paddington

[Brucey]

EDIT: I've just realised she was travelling from Pinhoe to Exeter Central. There are no stops in between and this journey does take around 5 minutes. What time of day was she travelling? If it was an off-peak time then the TM^‡(resolve) would be likely to have been able to pass through all of the train.

Do you actually travel by train?  If so, how often do you ever see the TM?  Possibly once per journey.  Rarely once per stop.  I made an 8hr journey last week on four trains and did not see a single member of staff on any of those services.

[ChrisB]

God, I hope GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) management read this thread , coz I know for a fact that you are NOT exhibiting the right attitude they look for ehen employing staff.

[Penzance-Paddington]

God, I hope GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) management read this thread , coz I know for a fact that you are NOT exhibiting the right attitude they look for ehen employing staff.

What, a great attitude towards customer service and the ability to follow procedures thoroughly?


Does an RPO's authority and power scare your or something?

[ChrisB]

You sre joking, right?!

Inflexibility in dealing with customers. And you are NOT displaying good customer service whatsoever!

[grahame]

We need to be careful in discussing individual cases - however, ....

... however ... that suggestion has not stopped Penzance-Paddington asking the most personal of questions, while ignoring requests for sufficient information about him / her to square his suggestions with the rules and with GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) policy and reporting structure.

I'm about to put a temporary posting block on Penzance-Paddington.  This is an extreme action, but there's a concern in my mind that his/ her posts may contravene the forum agreement he/she agreed with on signup - I have made my concern bold:

You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or ...

The block will be removed if an when the moderator's concerns along these lines have been answered - and the starting point for that will be in Penzance-Paddington's reply to my earlier queries to him / her, which I await.  I can be read by the email address / link at the bottom of every page - and that applies to blocked members too.

[grahame]

OK ... a little more from me.

Normally, I believe what people tell me - most people are truthful most of the time - and when a user signs up saying "I am applying for a job with ..." or "I am going to be trained by ...", it's probably gonna be correct. On some occasions, people  stretch the truth and - very rarely - people will completely fabricate a story.  And having started off with a trust, enough seeds of doubts can be sewn to make one wonder.   That's the case here - I don't know what the situation is, and I've asked for clarification / details to let me check.   And the Penzance-Paddington account is temporarily locked from posting while we check.

One of the reasons that I'm particularly concerned in this case is that the revenue protection staff I know are highly professional, typically very accurate in the work they do, and understanding and accommodating in the way they deal with situations before it's proven beyond reasonable doubt that there was deliberate attempt to avoid payment.  I cannot say the same for some posts on this and other threads, which seem to assume that day-to-day passengers have a doctorate in rail law, and that any doing the wrong thing in a new circumstance is intentional deceipt, where at the same time Penzance-Paddington has admitted a mistake or two, which I presume we're not to treat as deliberately misleading.  And this approach either signals a new policy / direction from GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) (in my view pretty unlikely - especially via a junior recruit on a forum) or postings which aren't right and bring the existing RPO team - who have a difficult job to do - into disrepute.

[ChrisB]

He's read/studied the 'bible', but not been through any staff-soecific training, is my bet....and basically trying to show off here. Remember the first question he asked, and when offered our advice, came back spouting the bible at us parrot-fashion. So he was testing us, rather than requesting help/advice

He's an amateur thinking he's a pro, without the staff training

[Timmer]

I should point out that in a subsequent 'phone call from my daughter, she told me that she did receive an apology from the member of gateline staff in question.

I was glad to read that Phil as I was about to suggest a strong worded letter to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) based on your daughter's experience.