First Great Western rebrands to Great Western Railway and related department changes

[whole diary]

[ellendune]

The change in branding to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) was mainly driven by the toxicity of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) brand, 

You of course have inside information... ...or is this just your opinion? 

I seem to remember reading somewhere that First were prepared to offer the brand to an incoming franchisee.  Can't remember where though. 

Update:  I have found it further up this thread at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15989.msg179687#msg179687

[johnneyw]

The new green livery does not appear (to me) to have arrived with much of a splash insofar as anything
rolling into local stations is concerned. Now, I know it would be a wasteful expense to prematurely repaint stock before it is usually scheduled but, on the assumption that they are not all done at once, shouldn't a few more  than the original showcase 125 be appearing soon?

[ellendune]

The new green livery does not appear (to me) to have arrived with much of a splash insofar as anything
rolling into local stations is concerned. Now, I know it would be a wasteful expense to prematurely repaint stock before it is usually scheduled but, on the assumption that they are not all done at once, shouldn't a few more  than the original showcase 125 be appearing soon?

As I understand it the green livery is primarily for the new stock and the stock that is being retained in the franchise for the long term (i.e. not the HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s).  We may therefore expect more Turbos and 150's to be repainted, but not the HST's.  Repainting stock that will only be retained in the short term would indeed be a waste of money. 

The decision to allow the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) brand to transfer was to avoid a new franchisee having to repaint what would then be brand new IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)'s if the franchise changes hands at the next change.  It may not have been a requirement of the franchise, but a good extra benefit to offer. 

[stuving]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that First were prepared to offer the brand to an incoming franchisee.  Can't remember where though. 

Update:  I have found it further up this thread at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15989.msg179687#msg179687

I don't read that the same way as ellendune, or bignosemac who in the cited post said:

What has been required in the Greater Western franchise is that any brands applied be transferable to future operators if that future operator wants them. Company names can still be used if the operator so wishes.

I think the requirement is for First to do one of: transfer any branding, remove it, or pay for it to be removed. However, the legalese forms a dense thicket around whatever it means. The relevant bit goes:

Subject to paragraphs 2.2(c) and 2.2(g), the Franchisee may:
(i) in respect of unregistered Marks, provide or procure the provision of an irrevocable undertaking to any relevant Successor Operator to the effect that neither it nor the owner of the Marks will enforce such rights as it may have or may in the future have in respect of such Marks against such Successor Operator and its successors; and
(ii) in respect of registered Marks, grant or procure the grant of an irrevocable licence to use such Marks to such Successor Operator and its successors.

Ignoring the semantic overkill of "provide or procure the provision of", I think the undertaking has to be made in advance in such a form as "we undertake to provide to the successor operator whoever that may be". The words appear to also allow for an undertaking only made once the successor is known and to them only, though that makes little sense to me.

[stuving]

Incidentally, the words "Marks" in that "relevant bit" has this definition:

^Marks^ means such trademarks as the Franchisee may apply to any Primary Franchise Asset or other asset used by it under a Key Contract, which are applied on the expiry of the Franchise Period and are not the subject of a Brand Licence;

I take it that "applied on the expiry of the Franchise Period" means still present, having been applied earlier, rather than that applying them happens only at the franchise end. And a "Brand Licence" is granted by the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) to the franchisee, which I guess might apply to a permanent franchise or service name.

[Tim]

The GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) Trade Mark device is owned by First Great Western Limited.  Noone else can use it without their consent (which conceivably, they could be forced to give as part of the Franchise of other agreement that they have entered into although I see no evidence of that).  I can see no reason why FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would give up their rights in the brand voluntarily.


https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00003064468


Interestingly the final real pre-nationalisation GWR device is now owned by the Science Museum.

[Visoflex]

It has a long, long way to go to live up to the name "Great Western Railway" with all of its proud historical connotations.

Yes certainly.  However, I do wonder if us "armchair experts" are looking nostalgically back through rose tinted glasses.  I don't know if any of the senior forum members were actually around before the last war, when the Great Western Railway was the Great Western Railway; and not the wartime British Railways or the post war Western Region of a nationalised British Railways.

Without researching the actual figures, I would presume the fares were lower as a percentage of average take home pay. Certainly the network was bigger and went to more stations, but did all the trains run exactly to time all the time, and did every passenger always get a seat?  Did every engineering possession complete on time and did signals never fail?  Brunswick green, copper and brass locomotives look fine when polished and charging through the countryside at speed.  However a station full of them makes it a pretty toxic place to be for anyone working there long term.

I suspect that every time has its own problems, and these are just ours.  In a few years we'll be griping about something else.

[stuving]

Without researching the actual figures, I would presume the fares were lower as a percentage of average take home pay.

Why? Surely there were far more staff working per passenger carried each day, so arithmetically that would give a fare much higher per day's GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) pay. There will be differences in typical journey length, but unless railway pay was far below whatever you are calling "average", it doesn't add up.

[IndustryInsider]

Yes certainly.  However, I do wonder if us "armchair experts" are looking nostalgically back through rose tinted glasses.  I don't know if any of the senior forum members were actually around before the last war, when the Great Western Railway was the Great Western Railway; and not the wartime British Railways or the post war Western Region of a nationalised British Railways.

It certainly had its problems - as well as 'God's Wonderful Railway', GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) also stood for 'Great Way Round' because of the tortuous journey times on some of it less-than-direct routes.  Christian Wolmar's book 'Fire & Steam' is an excellent read and regularly references the problems GWR, who he describes as 'parsimonious' (and the other members of the 'big four') had that seem to have mostly been forgotten.  You did have a few trains with outstanding average speeds (for the day), such as the 'Cheltenham Flyer', but at many other times it took an absolute age to get anywhere.

[Bmblbzzz]

I have no stats but I would be surprised if fares were lower in relation to average incomes, not only for the reason stuving gives about staff levels, but because transport as a whole has become much cheaper over the past half century or so.

[ellendune]

The GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) was indeed known as the Great Way Round.  If you think that most Plymouth Trains went via Bristol or the Berks and Before the various cut-off were built.  Birmingham Trains all went via Oxford.  Then there was the famous 10 minute stop at Swindon due to the catering concession there!Before the late 1880's South wales Trains all went via Gloucester!  and even after that they went via Bath and Bristol! The fastest way to London from Swindon was to catch the train from old Town Station to Andover and take the train to Waterloo!

From the 1890's in particular the GWR sought to address these failing by building the various cut off lines and investing in faster trains. 

[Stroud Valleys]

Gradually starting to see more 150 units in the green paint plus the new toilet and customer informations screens. What was annoying was for the automatic announcement about the next stop, and then for the poor sounding ticket inspector to make a poor announcement copying exactly what was said  pointless!

Does anyone have an up to date list of which units are due to be painted/have been painted to the new GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)?

[JayMac]

Gradually starting to see more 150 units in the green paint

Only one 150 has been liveried GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) green as far as I'm aware. 150232.

[TaplowGreen]

You get the feeling that it's going to be like painting the Forth Bridge..........by the time they've painted everything green, it'll be time to start at the beginning again..............or perhaps another rebrand? 

[stuving]

You get the feeling that it's going to be like painting the Forth Bridge..........by the time they've painted everything green, it'll be time to start at the beginning again..............or perhaps another rebrand? 

It's probably a lot less than you think. The new 800/801 trains all need to be painted in some colour or other, and that had to be chosen - probably by about now. The current fleet only "need" (in the marketing sense) to be painted to match if they are being kept. And, if you remember, a repaint programme for DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) had just begun - but not got very far, which helps to cover up the lack of foresight that led to it ever being started.