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paul7575
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« Reply #105 on: August 20, 2015, 12:21:06 » |
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If there's still a 1st class fare after 6th September, I wouldn't bank on that at all. While a refund is certainly due if a 165 turns up on a 166 diagram & you hold a 1st class ticket, I think you could get a penalty fare sitting in 1st without a 1st ticket, assuming the fare continues.
The normal routine on other TOCs▸ is that if the service is shown in the public timetable as not having first class, then the first class section of any train or unit that turns up with it is declassified for that service. Paul |
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ChrisB
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« Reply #106 on: August 20, 2015, 12:23:16 » |
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Correct, *if* there's no 1st class fare for that journey too
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BerkshireBugsy
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« Reply #107 on: August 20, 2015, 12:24:13 » |
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MODS- is there a possibility that this thread is merging with the "First Class Changes" thread elsewhere on the forum?
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JayMac
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« Reply #108 on: August 20, 2015, 12:31:54 » |
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The normal routine on other TOCs▸ is that if the service is shown in the public timetable as not having first class, then the first class section of any train or unit that turns up with it is declassified for that service.
Paul
Although this isn't codified anywhere officially. Recently a FGW▸ TM‡ was apparently charging upgrades on the Weymouth Wizard HST▸ and I'm aware of a saga on Greater Anglia where Class 170s were being used between Norwich and Sheringham and passengers were being charged an upgrade to sit in 1st Class. In the FGW case customer services confirmed upgrades should not be charged. In the Greater Anglia case customer services said they should be paid - with GA▸ TMs using the Weekend 1st option on their Avantix▸ every day! |
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"A clear conscience laughs at a false accusation."
"Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot."
"Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity."
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paul7575
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« Reply #109 on: August 20, 2015, 12:37:56 » |
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Correct, *if* there's no 1st class fare for that journey too
Not sure about that. SWT▸ have a couple of specific declassified services on the 'Salisbury 6' one each way in the weekday peaks. Same trains as usual, and first class fares remain available, but if you bought one and travelled on those particular trains you would have wasted your money. As shown within, the only difference is the missing '1' at the column head: http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/uploads/ptt25may2015.pdf Paul |
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Oxonhutch
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« Reply #110 on: August 20, 2015, 14:07:39 » |
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Paul, An interesting observation.
It occurs only M-F in the middle of the morning and evening peaks. Seems like they choose to increase capacity (reported availability of standard class seats [for the DfT» perhaps]) by the simple expediency of declassifying those two trains.
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Southern Stag
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« Reply #111 on: August 20, 2015, 20:47:00 » |
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If there's still a 1st class fare after 6th September, I wouldn't bank on that at all. While a refund is certainly due if a 165 turns up on a 166 diagram & you hold a 1st class ticket, I think you could get a penalty fare sitting in 1st without a 1st ticket, assuming the fare continues.
The normal routine on other TOCs▸ is that if the service is shown in the public timetable as not having first class, then the first class section of any train or unit that turns up with it is declassified for that service. Paul The staff brief on the changes confirms that if a 166 turns up on a service advertised as Standard Class only in the timetable then First Class is declassified. |
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plymothian
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« Reply #112 on: August 21, 2015, 01:56:37 » |
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St James Park is currently being repainted to GWR▸ green.
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Please be aware that only the first 4 words of this post will be platformed on this message board.
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NickB
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« Reply #113 on: August 21, 2015, 07:17:09 » |
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How is the First Class section of a 166 (or 165 for that matter) declassified, or rather how is the declassification communicated, if there are no staff on board other than the driver? Does the driver have to announce at every stop that he's arrived with a faux first class section?
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Oxonhutch
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« Reply #114 on: August 21, 2015, 08:47:30 » |
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Nick, you are forgetting the stealth aspect of this new service. No announcement will be made, either on the train or at stations - just like the announcement made to me in January before I bought my annual season ticket. To the public in general (sorry, customer) the [1] will simply disappear from the published timetables - a bit like the SWT▸ example illustrated by Paul.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #115 on: August 21, 2015, 09:16:04 » |
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If there's still a 1st class fare after 6th September, I wouldn't bank on that at all. While a refund is certainly due if a 165 turns up on a 166 diagram & you hold a 1st class ticket, I think you could get a penalty fare sitting in 1st without a 1st ticket, assuming the fare continues.
The normal routine on other TOCs▸ is that if the service is shown in the public timetable as not having first class, then the first class section of any train or unit that turns up with it is declassified for that service. The staff brief on the changes confirms that if a 166 turns up on a service advertised as Standard Class only in the timetable then First Class is declassified. Nothing in that respect mentioned in the retail brief the Panels were sent - so good to hear. Confusion may reign where a 166/165 combine to form a service though - the brief says it *will* be advertised as a 1st class offering, but the 165 1st section is "given over" to Standard....so you can sit in the 165 1st section but not in the 166 1st section.... |
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« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 09:29:46 by ChrisB »
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #116 on: August 21, 2015, 09:38:42 » |
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Let's be honest, 1st class in a Turbo is hardly worth it anyway?
It's hardly ever enforced and you get so little for the extra fare that no-one's really going to miss it.
What concerns me more is the huge hike/less availability in Advance 1st fares for long distance travel on FGW▸ since the reduction in 1st class on the HSTs▸ .
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #117 on: August 21, 2015, 09:48:08 » |
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I have no problem whatsoever with being questioned, or even informed that I am wrong (with an explanation of course), but telling anyone they are 'correct' belittles them. Please try & use 'agree', 'indeed, ....', or some such like)
Correct, *if* there's no 1st class fare for that journey too
What's good for the goose...! As you would no doubt say, in a slightly belittling tone, 'Hmmm...'  |
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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Timmer
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« Reply #118 on: August 21, 2015, 10:05:42 » |
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What concerns me more is the huge hike/less availability in Advance 1st fares for long distance travel on FGW▸ since the reduction in 1st class on the HSTs▸ .
Yep we've already seen that happen. From my local station 1st Advance fares to London start at ^59 up from ^32. |
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ChrisB
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« Reply #119 on: August 21, 2015, 10:31:51 » |
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you get so little for the extra fare that no-one's really going to miss it. The trolley services will feed you hot drinks/water...:-) What's good for the goose...! As you would no doubt say, in a slightly belittling tone, 'Hmmm...' hmmm, touch^! Sir :-) |
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