First Great Western rebrands to Great Western Railway and related department changes

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

The 166s are being consigned to the faster longer journeys - Oxfords/North Cotswolds (except the stoppers)/Gatwick & Newbury's/Bedwyn's with the 165's consigned to the inner Thames Valley & branches. Some semi-fasts will also be 166s. Timetables are being issued to show which journeys are which stock by using the '1' at the top of columns to denote 1st class availability - no '1' will mean a 165.

Does that mean just the Reading (+Branches) Paddington trains will be standard only and the Oxford stoppers still 166's? Or is it just the peak semi-fasts and thereafter, pot-luck? I await my letter.

My understanding is "some" semi-fasts and all fasts will be 166s from Oxford. The stoppers are 165s.

I suspect it is also to harmonise with the forthcoming Crossrail service.

I wouldn't be surprised, agreed.

As I have remarked before, these routes prior to the 165/166s were in general operated by single class accommodation - indeed right back to when that was called third class let alone second. The only exceptions tended to be in the peaks which may have been availability or revenue driven.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (and for that matter TT) have always been poor in diagramming 165/166 only onto appropriate routes treating them very much as interchangeable. I suspect there may still be operational reasons to run the 'wrong' type.

I'm not a first class traveler but don't begrudge those who are but from my experience the first class areas on the 165/166 services don't really offer much on the B&H^▸ (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury) line as there a very few ticket checks and from observation they are used by a large number of standard class ticket holders.

hmmm, there will be trolley services on the longer distance 166s.

An interesting entry on RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) looking as far into the future as I can (16 November). The first down service of the day between Reading and Didcot is 2L36 RDG^‡(resolve)-BAN.  RTT observes the following:

•Seating: standard only between Reading and Oxford, first & standard from Oxford

Interested to see how that pans out using the same train ...

166 unit attached at Oxford? The first service from BAN is a 6car unit currently, but I believe going to a 5car....so 2car 165 + 3car 166?

I also noted that most of the Class 2 Oxfords are "Standard Only" and the peak time semi-fasts "First and Standard".

The Class 1 services (longer distance) should be 166s and any class 2s will be 165s

[Oxonhutch]

All Banbury stoppers are 3 car. Short platforms beyond Oxford. Hence my query. 

[ChrisB]

Non so, sorry.

The 0607 has the rear three locked out - but it's a 6car. All doors unlocked at DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains), I believe.

[Oxonhutch]

Chris. I think we are referring to different trains 2L36 departs Reading at 0557 and is a 3 car service. I know because it is my usual train. What happens at Oxford I must plead ignorance but every down Banbury that I see between Reading and Didcot is alway a 3 car service

[Adelante_CCT]

An interesting entry on RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) looking as far into the future as I can (16 November). The first down service of the day between Reading and Didcot is 2L36 RDG^‡(resolve)-BAN.  RTT observes the following:

•Seating: standard only between Reading and Oxford, first & standard from Oxford

Interested to see how that pans out using the same train ...

Obviously a mistake somewhere seeing as the following diagram 1P25 07:28 from Banbury is back to standard only as far as Oxford then back once again to first & standard from Oxford

[IndustryInsider]

Chris. I think we are referring to different trains 2L36 departs Reading at 0557 and is a 3 car service. I know because it is my usual train. What happens at Oxford I must plead ignorance but every down Banbury that I see between Reading and Didcot is alway a 3 car service

Certainly sounds like an error.  And, as now, 165 and 166 diagrams will remain pretty much interchangeable, despite endeavours to keep them separate as far as practically possible, as the demands on the stock are so high and set swaps are common for all manner of things.

To clarify the Banbury diagrams, on weekdays there's one morning and one evening train that goes to Banbury as more than 3-cars, the 05:18 is a 6-car, and the 19:17 which is a 4-car.  In both cases the rear set is locked out of use, before being unlocked and the other portion locked at Banbury for the return journey to Paddington - the locked portion then being unlocked at Didcot Parkway.

[Oxonhutch]

The other effect is that it also removes a preferred area where the TMs^‡(resolve) can sit when they are present on those services but not dealing with the travelling public.

However BB I disagree.  The favoured spot of seclusion is the rear driving cab in which RP lurks until the down train has departed Tilehurst, after which all of his 'customers' have departed. It appears that the rear cab will be the only first class accommodation left on my local services; I must remember my BR1 !!  Only kidding! Honest.

[lordgoata]

Talking of morning services - the 0738 from Goring (to Paddington) is currently a 3 car DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit). It was listed in one of the upcoming updates to change to a 5-car from 7th September. Can anyone (II?) tell me if its remaining a 165/166 or is it changing back to the hideous 180 it was for a while a couple years ago ? Thanks in advance anyone!

[Adelante_CCT]

I believe this to still be a turbo, this train along with a handful of others are having a 1 or 2 coach increase as a result of an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) or two replacing other turbo diagrams. This includes the 08:09 Paddington to Reading semi fast being replaced by an HST which then forms a new 09:15 to Paddington stopping at Maidenhead only

[Oxonhutch]

Whilst waiting at Reading yesterday for my local connection I was acquainted with the new green turbo and discovered it was all standard class.  I take it that first class refunds are in order when it is singularly diagrammed on a multi-class service. 

It is the stealth through which this process is progressing that ticks me off.  First a massive reduction of capacity on the high speed services - including my favourite quiet coach - and now its almost total removal on the locals. And the first class premium is still 110% over the standard rate! If these were regulated fares I think they would be forced to reflect the decreasing levels of service.

[JayMac]

As the turbos are heading West to operate local services radiating from Bristol in the next couple of years, I guess it makes sense to remove 1st Class when each unit goes off for refresh.

Does mean there's a short interim in the Thames Valley where units may be standard only until introduction of EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit).

And yes, a refund of the difference between 1st and Standard fares is due if advertised 1st Class accommodation is not available. As per Condition 38 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

[IndustryInsider]

I believe this to still be a turbo, this train along with a handful of others are having a 1 or 2 coach increase as a result of an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) or two replacing other turbo diagrams. This includes the 08:09 Paddington to Reading semi fast being replaced by an HST which then forms a new 09:15 to Paddington stopping at Maidenhead only

Good news for Maidenhead passengers having a new 09:27 fast HST to London in the morning (the 09:15ex Reading mentioned above), though as it's after commuting time but too early for an off-peak return I wonder how many people will use it?  A day return to London on the 09:27 arriving 09:52 will be ^21.30, but travel eight minutes earlier on the 09:19 arriving at 10:04 and it's much less at ^11.40.  It also has no connection from Marlow/Bourne End.  Perhaps a train that will fall between two stalls unless an off-peak easement is introduced?

[JayMac]

Buy your CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')) from Furze Platt (^11.40) and take advantage of an existing easement which allows departure from Furze Platt after 0840. Start short at Maidenhead. 

[adc82140]

The removal of 1st is a good move IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion). It was simply a cause of conflict on the LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) services, and with DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) was rarely if ever enforced. I presume though that 1st fares will still be available from Slough/Maidenhead/Twyford as there are still some HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) serving these stations. Is the 1st area being totally removed on 165s (new seating, matching the opposite end) or will it be more like the 166s (no antimicassars, door held open)?

If a 166 turns up on a 165 diagram, I take it that 1st is automatically declassified? 

[ChrisB]

The removal of 1st is a good move IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion). It was simply a cause of conflict on the LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) services, and with DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) was rarely if ever enforced. I presume though that 1st fares will still be available from Slough/Maidenhead/Twyford as there are still some HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) serving these stations. Is the 1st area being totally removed on 165s (new seating, matching the opposite end) or will it be more like the 166s (no antimicassars, door held open)?

Sorry, the document wasn't detailed enough to answer that Q.

If a 166 turns up on a 165 diagram, I take it that 1st is automatically declassified? 

If there's still a 1st class fare after 6th September, I wouldn't bank on that at all. While a refund is certainly due if a 165 turns up on a 166 diagram & you hold a 1st class ticket, I think you could get a penalty fare sitting in 1st without a 1st ticket, assuming the fare continues.
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