First Great Western rebrands to Great Western Railway and related department changes

[whole diary]

[ray951]

As well as the rebranding of trains FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have also started rebranding stations.
A lot of Didcot Parkway station has been repainted in recent weeks into a dark green, although there are still some pieces of station furniture in FGW pink/purple.

[Rhydgaled]

Didn't know the 166's had been sent for repainting.

More re-skinning, its all done with vinyl wrap nowadays with a little paint

Actually, haven't some 166s (or was it 165s) recently been refurbished, gaining new accessible toilets and, at the same time, a new plain blue with pink doors livery? If I recall correctly (and in this case I'm not sure I do) somebody suggested the dynamic lines livery on the 166/165 fleet was a vinyl wrap but the plain blue and pink doors is paint. If so, are the dynamic lines Turbos actually still carrying the white-based First Great Western Link livery underneath the vinyl, in which case it would explain the current repaint.

[Rhydgaled]

IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly), Mark Hopwood has previously stated that DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) with under floor engines were not suited to inter city routes, so what are we getting ? DMUS with under floor engines!

He did*, hence my earlier comment agreeing that priorities have shifted away from acting in the best interests of passengers.

* it was actually only the PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-Penzance route, not the GW^▸ (Great Western) IC^▸ (Inter City) fleet as a whole, so it really only relates to the fact AT300 is First's 'prefered option' for that route. Here's a quote (Modern Railways, August 2011):

Introducing Meridians cascaded from Midland main line electrification onto the West of England service was looked at, but 'stakeholders did not find this acceptable, as they did not like the underfloor diesel engines and cramped interiors of those trains' says Mr Hopwood.

At the time of the article, the length of the 'electric' IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) sets had not yet been determined (I wonder who specified that all bi-modes would be 5-car???) and

Mr Hopwood reports that DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and the operators are looking at the make-up of the electric fleet carefully, considering a combination of five-, eight- and nine-car units. 'We don't want to fall into the class 180 trap, of having a fleet of trains not long enough for the job, but equally, five cars can be useful for lightly-loaded services late in the evening and for secondary routes.

In the event, of course, all the 'electric' sets were specified as 9-car sets, but the lack of longer units in the bi-mode fleet concerns me greatly (sure, a few 5-car sets would be useful for evenings and the odd off-peak service on quieter routes but not having any 8/9-car units bi-modes at all in the IEP fleet (and not many in the proposed AT300 order either) is very worrying.

[onthecushions]

ASUI the Green stock will have a vynal sticker with Operated by First Group or words to that effect. Which can be removed if First lose the franchise.

... and replaced with BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) crown and Lion roundels, well suited to the retro EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) green.

Trojan moquette seat coverings would complete the re-brand.

Can't wait.

OTC

[Chris from Nailsea]

166204?....yep, there's a thread somewhere that's mentioned this already

Quite so, ChrisB. 

I've therefore moved and merged both topics here, for clarity and continuity.

[Adelante_CCT]

Actually, haven't some 166s (or was it 165s) recently been refurbished, gaining new accessible toilets and, at the same time, a new plain blue with pink doors livery?

Yes there have been a handful going round with a darker blue finish on them, this does seem strange if they are now all being done in green

[ChrisB]

I've already edged toward concluding that it's a DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) request to have neutral branding - i.e. nothing corporate.

But why just the Greater Western franchise? Other recent franchise awards have had no such condition imposed. Virgin have started emblazoning their logo all over the East Coast rolling stock. Govia Thameslink Railway have multiple brands across their network.

What has been required in the Greater Western franchise is that any brands applied be transferable to future operators if that future operator wants them. Company names can still be used if the operator so wishes.

From the Greater Western Franchise Agreement:

Branding

Subject to any applicable obligations or restrictions on the Franchisee (including the terms of the Rolling Stock Leases), the Franchisee may apply registered or unregistered trademarks (including company names, livery and other distinctive get-up) to any assets owned or used by it in the operation and provision of the Franchise Services.

Follow the link for further reading in the Franchise Agreement about branding and successor operators.

It is clear therefore that First Group have chosen not to have any corporate identity with GWR. It hasn't been imposed on them by the DfT. The Franchise Agreement says they can have company names if they so wish. Those companies would be either First Group PLC, or subsidiary First Greater Western Ltd.

it isn't - it's DfT led.

It isn't. It's a First Group decision.

If you read the remaining paras, the penalties for reinstatement to the new operator (should they lose the franchise) are incredibly steep - maybe a First decision, but DfT controlled. Such a cost after just 7 years....

[chuffed]

... and replaced with BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) crown and Lion roundels, well suited to the retro EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) green.

Trojan moquette seat coverings would complete the re-brand.

Can't wait.

OTC

Why not go the whole hog and add silver handles for heating (Low-high) sepia photos  by Francis Frith above the seats, string netting for luggage racks and dim to bright toggle buttons for carriage lighting ? And special bouncy seats to create an impenetrable dust cloud ....

[Fourbee]

Actually, haven't some 166s (or was it 165s) recently been refurbished, gaining new accessible toilets and, at the same time, a new plain blue with pink doors livery? If I recall correctly (and in this case I'm not sure I do) somebody suggested the dynamic lines livery on the 166/165 fleet was a vinyl wrap but the plain blue and pink doors is paint. If so, are the dynamic lines Turbos actually still carrying the white-based First Great Western Link livery underneath the vinyl, in which case it would explain the current repaint.

I certainly have been in one of the dark blue turbos where the "old" first class saloon converted to standard at one end had FC^‡(resolve) antimacassars in. I cannot recall being in one with dynamic lines livery that had that. Were the seats changed too in the makeover?

The gap between the accessible toilet and the remaining seat looks quite narrow too. I wonder if a wheelchair user in the wrong part of the train would be able to get past.

[IndustryInsider]

The gap between the accessible toilet and the remaining seat looks quite narrow too. I wonder if a wheelchair user in the wrong part of the train would be able to get past.

Almost certainly not - the refreshment trolley couldn't!  I doubt the wheelchair would fit in-between the 2+3 seating to even get that far though.

[The Tall Controller]

57605 has finally returned from Derby in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) green and worked the down sleeper last night. I think that's now 1 loco and 3 coaches now in green for the sleeper stock.

[JayMac]

If you read the remaining paras, the penalties for reinstatement to the new operator (should they lose the franchise) are incredibly steep - maybe a First decision, but DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) controlled. Such a cost after just 7 years....

Do you think I didn't read those paragraphs?

Exactly what penalties are there for First Group peeling off their 'Operated By' vinyls and the green livery vinyl near the end of the franchise?

You stated that a neutral livery was DfT mandated. That is not the case.

[ChrisB]

Non commercial I also said....

And others read this thread, as well as you. They might not be bothering to read everything you link to.

[JayMac]

The recently retendered East Coast and TSGN franchises have the exact same 'Branding' clauses in the Franchise Agreements.

Operators are free to brand and livery how they choose. Corporate, non corporate, trade marked, non trade marked. There are no penalties for doing so. Reasonable costs can be agreed with a successor operator for removal. Or, more likely, an existing operator will remove anything not wanted by the successor before handover.

The overall green being used by First Group for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) is their choice and has not been mandated by DfT^» (Department for Transport - about). Nor has it been mandated that First Group mustn't emblazoning the stock with corporate branding.

I'll say it again. GWR and Green is First Group's decision entirely. Sod all DfT diktat.

[grahame]

Spotted at Swindon today ...