Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 15:15 09 Jan 2025
 
- Fresh weather warnings for ice across UK
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 today - Bath Railway Society
24/01/25 - Westbury Station reopens
24/01/25 - LTP4 Wilts / Consultation end
24/01/25 - Bristol Rail Campaign AGM 2025

On this day
9th Jan (2004)
Incorporation of Railway Development Society Ltd (now Railfuture) (link)

Train RunningShort Run
14:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa
16:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington
Delayed
14:50 Trowbridge to Bristol Temple Meads
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
January 09, 2025, 15:27:38 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[167] 'Railway 200' events and commemorations 2025
[114] Thumpers for Dummies
[96] Railcard Prices going up
[57] Outstanding server / web site issues
[33] Oxford station - facilities, improvements, parking, incidents ...
[21] Views sought : how train companies give assistance to disabled...
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Winchester - Havant via London  (Read 4687 times)
Rhydgaled
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1500


View Profile WWW
« on: June 23, 2015, 15:18:07 »

With the 5-WES (Wessex Electric) trains due to be replaced next year (or later this year?), I've decided now might be my last chance to ride one, and compare them with the class 444 Desiro units. Unfortunately, it appears these classes are not often used on services that stop at Clapham Junction, so it looks like a walk between Waterloo and Victoria is in order. There will be two of us traveling, both with a railcard. The itinerary I've worked out so far is:

  • 09:48 Winchester - London Waterloo arr 10:52 (orriginates from Weymouth at 07:55) (Anytime Single ^22.60 each)
  • 11:59 London - Victoria - Gatwick Airport arr. 12:29 (Anytime Single ^13.15 each)
  • 12:39 Gatwick Airport - Havant arr. 14:19 (Off Peak Day Single ^10.05 each)
Total of the three single fares for the journey is ^45.80

I don't think there's a day rover that will cover all these trains (nearest I found was Southern's Day Save, but I don't think that's valid on GatEx doesn't help me). I don't have the unit diagrams so if a 450 turns up instead of a 444 at Winchester I'll just wait until a 444 turns up, so Advance tickets are no good. Date of travel will be Monday (the 29th), but I doubt that matters since Advance tickets aren't an option.

While elsewhere split tickets seem to save money, in this case I think combining the journey into fewer tickets should help. I've found two options:
1. a Victoria to Havant Anytime Day Single for ^21.70 each (making ^44.30 when the Winchester - Waterloo fare is added)
2. a Winchester-GTW Anytime Day Single for ^29.75 each (^39.80 with the Gatwick - Havant leg factored in)
However, both these have queries:
1. because I'm breaking my journey at Gatwick, the journey planner isn't showing GatEx services, since through trains are available, so I'm not sure the ticket is valid on GatEx
2. the journey planner tells me to make lots of changes and avoids Waterloo, so I'm not sure the ticket would be valid into Waterloo (on the 09:48 train, it tells me to:
  • Change at Wimbledon onto a train that stops at Clapham Junc.
  • Change at Clapham Junc. onto a train to Victoria
  • finally, change onto GatEx
)

Can anyone do better, or recomend anything I should print to prove validity to any ticket inspectors who question my tickets?
Logged

----------------------------
Don't DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
Rhydgaled
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1500


View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2015, 16:27:58 »

Well, just to prove how complicated the fares system is, the ticket office at Winchester found an even cheaper option! Off-Peak Day Return Portsmouth Stations to London Terminals at ^25.80 each plus the Victoria-Gatwick ^13.15 Anytime Single. I didn't think of buying a ticket for a longer-distance journey than I needed, but it was cheaper than the options I'd considered.
Logged

----------------------------
Don't DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
Fourbee
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 702


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2015, 17:01:17 »

Just had a look at the routing guide (for what it's worth these days) and that ticket does offer a quite a range of routes.

I was surprised to see Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo via Eastleigh, Winchester & Basingstoke as an explicit mapped route (I know there is a direct train so it would be valid anyway).
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 43073



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2015, 17:03:14 »

Well, just to prove how complicated the fares system is, the ticket office at Winchester found an even cheaper option! Off-Peak Day Return Portsmouth Stations to London Terminals at ^25.80 each plus the Victoria-Gatwick ^13.15 Anytime Single. I didn't think of buying a ticket for a longer-distance journey than I needed, but it was cheaper than the options I'd considered.

I think that Portsmouth - London is valid via Gatwick / you may not need the extra single.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, TravelWatch SouthWest Board Member
Fourbee
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 702


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2015, 17:25:45 »

Well, just to prove how complicated the fares system is, the ticket office at Winchester found an even cheaper option! Off-Peak Day Return Portsmouth Stations to London Terminals at ^25.80 each plus the Victoria-Gatwick ^13.15 Anytime Single. I didn't think of buying a ticket for a longer-distance journey than I needed, but it was cheaper than the options I'd considered.

I think that Portsmouth - London is valid via Gatwick / you may not need the extra single.

I reckon it might be valid on the Gatwick Express as well as it's "Any Permitted". There are no "not Gat Ex" style restrictions as per some other origins/destinations. The "Southern Only" variant would not be IMO (in my opinion) (think we had a discussion on here a while back about the trading names vs. operator names in relation to the Gatwick Express).
Logged
Fourbee
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 702


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2015, 17:30:43 »

I hope you have a good trip BTW (by the way) Rhydgaled. In your OP (Original Poster / topic starter) you mentioned the journey was today, but your follow up post was dated late this afternoon so maybe you're not doing it today.

FWIW (for what it's worth) I am a fan of the 444s (the best air-con unlike the hothouse 166 I was on the other day; large windows; decent views from most seats; 2+2 layout; some tables) and I have fond memories of the 442s (particularly the "snug" part in the buffet car) so will be interested to hear your comparisons.
Logged
Chris from Nailsea
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 19089


Justice for Cerys Piper and Theo Griffiths please!


View Profile Email
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2015, 22:49:46 »

I reckon it might be valid on the Gatwick Express as well as it's "Any Permitted". There are no "not Gat Ex" style restrictions as per some other origins/destinations. The "Southern Only" variant would not be IMO (in my opinion) (think we had a discussion on here a while back about the trading names vs. operator names in relation to the Gatwick Express).

... and we're back to the Mornington Crescent version of the routing guide, where the rules are apparently just made up as we go along. Roll Eyes
Logged

William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
Rhydgaled
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1500


View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2015, 10:53:27 »

Well, just to prove how complicated the fares system is, the ticket office at Winchester found an even cheaper option! Off-Peak Day Return Portsmouth Stations to London Terminals at ^25.80 each plus the Victoria-Gatwick ^13.15 Anytime Single. I didn't think of buying a ticket for a longer-distance journey than I needed, but it was cheaper than the options I'd considered.
I think that Portsmouth - London is valid via Gatwick / you may not need the extra single.
I did wonder whether the extra single was necessary but, since the ticket office had come up with something cheaper than anything I had thought to try, I decided to assume they knew what they were doing and not argue. Either that or the ticket office didn't know whether GatEx would accept the ticket and hence played safe by adding the extra ticket.

I was surprised to see Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo via Eastleigh, Winchester & Basingstoke as an explicit mapped route (I know there is a direct train so it would be valid anyway).
Ah yes, the 'direct' (actually meaning 'through') train rule. I wonder if Portsmouth to London Victoria via Gatwick is a valid route or whether only the through train on that route is acceptable on the ticket. If that's the case, it would explain the extra ticket for my GatEx leg.

I hope you have a good trip BTW (by the way) Rhydgaled. In your OP (Original Poster / topic starter) you mentioned the journey was today, but your follow up post was dated late this afternoon so maybe you're not doing it today.
Thanks, it was a good trip, at least as far as Gatwick (I don't know why*, but the 377 from there to Havant gave a really bumpy and lurchy ride, in contrast to the smooth ride on the 444 and 5-WES). I left Winchester on the 09:48 as planned and made it to Havant by 3pm.

* State of the track, fault with the unit or just a poor design of unit

FWIW (for what it's worth) I am a fan of the 444s (the best air-con unlike the hothouse 166 I was on the other day; large windows; decent views from most seats; 2+2 layout; some tables) and I have fond memories of the 442s (particularly the "snug" part in the buffet car) so will be interested to hear your comparisons.
We're getting a bit off-topic for this section of the forum now, but I think it is hard to compare the train design itself, rather than the current interior fit (which can be changed at refurbishments). Both types were rather good, although I noticed that both types had quite wide pillars between windows (maybe I should have brought a tape measure to see which was wider). The window-size contest I think is won by the 5-WES. On both trains I think the interior was probably about as quiet as a mark3 coach on an IC125 set, but then I believe the coaches I boarded were trailers rather than motor coaches.

Regarding the current interior, on both trains we got a table bay well-aligned with the windows. The seats on modern trains tend to be unsatisfying, but in this case I think seats on the 5-WES were the more disapointing (but I think I still much prefered the unit to the 377). Note to seat designers: do not try to shape the seat to a person's body shape because pepole come in such a range of different sizes. I almost had a coach to myself on the GatEx, so I can't really comment on whether the luggage space was sufficient for an airport service (although I would say this provision was at least as much as most long-distance trains I have been on).

Regarding air-con, on the 377 in particular, I got the impression that the reduced power available on 3rd rail compared to OHLE meant the air-con was only really working when the train was coasting or stationary.
Logged

----------------------------
Don't DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page