Cross Country HST seating

[whole diary]

[Eliza]

I believe Cross Country uses an HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) on its Leeds to Plymouth route.  If the interior of the carriages has been refurbished in XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) style, does that mean that XC seating has replaced the typical, First Great Western HST seating. I travelled on Saturday on what I take to be a Voyager (the 12.00 from Taunton to Paignton) and found the seats narrower and less comfortable.  Is there any advantage in terms of comfort in catching an XC HST?

[ChrisB]

AS I recall, the seating in the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) is old-style - i.e. the seats FGW^▸ (First Great Western) had before the first refurb. They've been re-cushioned I think, but the seating remains, so lower backs, proper arm-rests.

[Timmer]

XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) have the same seating as East Coast HSTs. IC70 seating (lower backs, fixed armrests) were replaced shortly after XC took them on. The only HSTs that still have IC70 seating are Grand Central and East Midlands trains HSTs.

In answer to your question regards comfort Voyager vs HST - no comparison, HST every time IMHO^▸ ('in my humble opinion'). I fully expect some displaced HSTs from GW^» (Great Western - used as an abbreviation for the area / lines under the Great Western franchise, as opposed to FGW which includes "First", the company operating them too. For tickets - about) and East Coast will end up back running more XC services again as a stop gap until more of the lines used by the XC network are electrified. When that happens I shall start using XC again rather than going via London when travelling North.

[JayMac]

Here's an image of the CrossCountry HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) seating:



Other rolling stock that still has original InterCity IC70 seating is Greater Anglia's electric loco hauled Mk3s, Arriva Trains Wales' diesel hauled Premier Service, and the seated carriages of First Great Western's Night Riviera.

[Fourbee]

I travelled on an East Coast IC225 set recently, presumably these the same seating as the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) bignosemac posted (and the East Coast HSTs). I found my knees started to ache after a while, the seat seems to slope away not offering much support under the legs.

On the positive side the backs seem lower than the "tombstone" style seating used by FGW^▸ (First Great Western) HSTs?
(offering slightly better views out of the windows & being able to see where the spare seats are when boarding)

[Rhydgaled]

Voyager vs HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) - no comparison, HST every time IMHO^▸ ('in my humble opinion').

Indeed, XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise))'s IC125s have 7 coaches versus just four or five (with alot of space lost on cabs and accessible toilets) on a single Voyager. And didn't XC get rid of the hybrid coach (standard class 2+2 seating but all seats at window-aligned table bays like in first) on their Voyagers? That hybrid coach actually gives a better view than a Pendolino does I think, although I find the Voyager seats to be a poor shape.

Other rolling stock that still has original InterCity IC70 seating is Greater Anglia's electric loco hauled Mrk3s, Arriva Trains Wales' diesel hauled Premier Service, and the seated carriages of First Great Western's Night Riviera.

I don't think the ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former Train Operating Company)) premier service (also known as 'Y Gerallt Gymro' or 'Gerald' for short) has IC70 seating, unless IC70 is the first class seating. Standard class on Gerald is mrk3 coaches with the same seats as the refurbished ATW class 158s (I think they are called Grammer seats). Perhaps you are thinking of the mrk2 stock formerlly used for Gerald standard class, which did have low-backed seating if I recall correctly (but did mrk2s use IC70?).

[JayMac]

I was referring to the 1st Class variant IC70s for ATWs^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former Train Operating Company)) Premier Service and FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s Night Riviera seated coaches. The latter is of course available to Standard Class ticket holders.

[Eliza]

My thanks to everyone who has replied today - Chris B, Timmer, bignosemac (for his photo), Fourbee and Rhydgaled.  It's very clear which train seats you prefer.

Are the benefits of travelling on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) negated by the fact that, being a CrossCountry train, the seats won't all line up with the windows in standard or first class, and is it ever possible to predict which side of the carriage they will be on?  I would only be making a short journey from Taunton to Newton Abbot but it's always thrilling to be as close as possible to the sea wall from Dawlish to Teignmouth.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Now there I would offer a completely different view, Eliza.

Last time I went down to Devon on the train, I quite deliberately chose a seat with a view opposite that traditional one.   I was really impressed and fascinated by the clear evidence of all the engineering work done by Network Rail on the various rock structures and cliff faces along that length of line.

[Eliza]

Hi, Chris from Nailsea.  I am sorry that a wire mesh, metal fence has been erected in places along the trackside (to prevent rock falling on to it?), as it detracts from the wild, picturesque aspect of the cliffs.  I presume it's there to stay. 

[rower40]

Are the benefits of travelling on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) negated by the fact that, being a CrossCountry train, the seats won't all line up with the windows in standard or first class, and is it ever possible to predict which side of the carriage they will be on?  I would only be making a short journey from Taunton to Newton Abbot but it's always thrilling to be as close as possible to the sea wall from Dawlish to Teignmouth.

From my experience (travelling a few times, and gazing out of my office window at the trains coming and going at Derby station), the First-Class in the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) HSTs is almost always at the Plymouth (South) end of the train.  This means that the seats with the sea view are the "+1" in the "2+1" layout.

[Eliza]

Thanks, rower 40.  I hope you wave at the people in the trains from your office window.

[readytostart]

Voyager vs HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) - no comparison, HST every time IMHO^▸ ('in my humble opinion').

Indeed, XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise))'s IC125s have 7 coaches versus just four or five (with alot of space lost on cabs and accessible toilets) on a single Voyager. And didn't XC get rid of the hybrid coach (standard class 2+2 seating but all seats at window-aligned table bays like in first) on their Voyagers? That hybrid coach actually gives a better view than a Pendolino does I think, although I find the Voyager seats to be a poor shape.

The hybrid coach was added by Virgin WC^▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority)) after the split from XC to provide more first class seating when used on Holyhead services as 10 cars, XC Voyagers have never had them.

[Rhydgaled]

Voyager vs HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) - no comparison, HST every time IMHO^▸ ('in my humble opinion').

Indeed, XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise))'s IC125s have 7 coaches versus just four or five (with alot of space lost on cabs and accessible toilets) on a single Voyager. And didn't XC get rid of the hybrid coach (standard class 2+2 seating but all seats at window-aligned table bays like in first) on their Voyagers? That hybrid coach actually gives a better view than a Pendolino does I think, although I find the Voyager seats to be a poor shape.

The hybrid coach was added by Virgin WC^▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority)) after the split from XC to provide more first class seating when used on Holyhead services as 10 cars, XC Voyagers have never had them.

Ah, ok. I didn't realise that. I assumed the hybrid coach (like the abundance of accessible toilets) was a hangover from Virgin's plans to have three classes rather than just first and standard.

[brompton rail]

Are the benefits of travelling on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) negated by the fact that, being a CrossCountry train, the seats won't all line up with the windows in standard or first class, and is it ever possible to predict which side of the carriage they will be on?  I would only be making a short journey from Taunton to Newton Abbot but it's always thrilling to be as close as possible to the sea wall from Dawlish to Teignmouth.

From my experience (travelling a few times, and gazing out of my office window at the trains coming and going at Derby station), the First-Class in the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) HSTs is almost always at the Plymouth (South) end of the train.  This means that the seats with the sea view are the "+1" in the "2+1" layout.

I think this is the norm - First Class leading southbound (and trailing northbound). On normal diagrams the HSTs don't reverse en route and so are mostly the 'correct way round'. Weekend engineering work may sometimes cause then to be reversed, but I struggle to think of any diversionary routes that require a reversal - even going via Gloucester, Newport and then Parkway puts the sets 'right' way from Bristol Parkway southwards. Via Leicester, via Lichfield, via Doncaster instead of Leeds, via Worcester (going direct via Bromsgrove or via Smethwick West and Stourbridge), even via Westbury doesn't reverse the train. Remember the HSTs only run Glasgow / Dundee / Edinburgh via Birmingham NS to Paignton / Plymouth / Penzance and not to the South Coast. In BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) days allmost all HSTs reversed at Gloucester meaning First was at the correct end (southern end) north of Gloucester, and eastern end south of Gloucester thus matching the same locations on platforms as GW^» (Great Western - used as an abbreviation for the area / lines under the Great Western franchise, as opposed to FGW which includes "First", the company operating them too. For tickets - about) InterCity trains and East Coast InterCity trains.