Network Rail's electrification upgrade delayed, now restarted, by government

[whole diary]

[didcotdean]

Latest version of the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) report linked to in the first post claims that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) has known about this since the spring; an election got in the way. Still it is the same amount of money, buying less.

Maybe with the coming of the Oxford to Marylebone service, Oxford to Didcot electrification looks less urgent overall. Big call though.

[ChrisB]

In the whole scheme, Didcot/Oxford must be a very small part?.....

[didcotdean]

It doesn't really affect the North Cotswold service that much as that is bi-mode anyway. However, if the EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) Oxford local/express services remain DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)/HST^▸ (High Speed Train) then this delays cascading. Unless you shuttle to Didcot.

And what about East-West ....

[ChrisB]

That's why "vulnerable" rather than "paused" - i.e. they've realised EastWest can't go ahead properly & they need to find another cut ideally?

[didcotdean]

As it isn't in the actual announcement but in the reporter's comment (however well informed that might be) it may just be an option in the mix at the moment. Having fleets of SETs^▸ (Super Express Train (now IET)) standing idle for a while or only running to Oxford might be the other unpalatable alternative.

[ChrisB]

Did you mean Didcot, perchance?

[didcotdean]

Did you mean Didcot, perchance?

I was thinking more of a scenario where effort was not all diverted onto the main line and maintained to Oxford instead to release the diesels.

The other thing that might save NR^» (Network Rail - home page)'s face in all this (if not things in general) would be if the SET^▸ (Super Express Train (now IET)) proved troublesome in early service.

[IndustryInsider]

I'd be surprised if Didcot to Oxford was postponed.

[Timmer]

How was BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) able to electrify virtually the entire East Coast mainline in the 1980's with little fuss and yet despite all our 21st century technology Network Rail are struggling with just a few miles?

I know one answer is staff with the skills are no longer working on the railways.

Paul Clifton mentioned in his report on BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) South Today earlier that they are even recruiting from Indian railways.

[chrisr_75]

How was BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) able to electrify virtually the entire East Coast mainline in the 1980's with little fuss and yet despite all our 21st century technology Network Rail are struggling with just a few miles?

I know one answer is staff with the skills are no longer working on the railways.

Paul Clifton mentioned in his report on BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) South Today earlier that they are even recruiting from Indian railways.

Wasn't the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) electrification done on the cheap, manifesting itself in the wiring falling apart every time it gets a bit windy?

[Electric train]

How was BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) able to electrify virtually the entire East Coast mainline in the 1980's with little fuss and yet despite all our 21st century technology Network Rail are struggling with just a few miles?

I know one answer is staff with the skills are no longer working on the railways.

Paul Clifton mentioned in his report on BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) South Today earlier that they are even recruiting from Indian railways.

Wasn't the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) electrification done on the cheap, manifesting itself in the wiring falling apart every time it gets a bit windy?

The reasons the ECML could be done without fuss are many and varied
The ECML was the panicle of experience, based on the early work on the GE and then the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) this was a span of well over 40 years, there has been a 25 year gap since the last major scheme on a live railway
Health and safety regulations are substantially different, the hours people can work on site have been reduced.
Planning permission hoops are more stringent

One of the major problems the industry has is the shortage of skilled and experienced workforce.  Critical resources that project teams will start to put actual names to tasks during July and August for work this Christmas are Signalling Tester in Charge, Overhead Line Level A (some who issues safety documents) and if you want a Level A for distribution if the project has not got them already lined up you can say good by to distribution testing over Christmas.  Other resources in short supply OHL^▸ (Over-Head Line) lines men (we fetch them in for Germany, Spain, Hungary at peak times like Christmas, signalling installers and testers.

However there are plenty of accountants   
 

[Timmer]

Reports tonight that the cost of the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification has gone from ^1bn in 2009 to ^7bn now. That's insane! 

[ellendune]

Reports tonight that the cost of the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification has gone from ^1bn in 2009 to ^7bn now. That's insane! 

What was included in the original estimate.  Part of the justification was that the signalling needed replacing anyway and so did the trains so it was not a lot extra. 

Are we comparing the same numbers. 

[Rhydgaled]

How was BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) able to electrify virtually the entire East Coast mainline in the 1980's with little fuss and yet despite all our 21st century technology Network Rail are struggling with just a few miles?

I know one answer is staff with the skills are no longer working on the railways.

Paul Clifton mentioned in his report on BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) South Today earlier that they are even recruiting from Indian railways.

Wasn't the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) electrification done on the cheap, manifesting itself in the wiring falling apart every time it gets a bit windy?

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the reason the ECML wires fall down more often than the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) is that the southern section of the ECML project was only intended for the suburban services and hence wasn't really up to the job once the wires were extended and 125mph INTERCITY services started using them. Not sure if that's true though.

[Electric train]

Reports tonight that the cost of the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification has gone from ^1bn in 2009 to ^7bn now. That's insane! 

What was included in the original estimate.  Part of the justification was that the signalling needed replacing anyway and so did the trains so it was not a lot extra. 

Are we comparing the same numbers. 

I feel there is some mixing of the apples with other fruit, (not comparing apples with apples)

The doom and gloom merchants about Electrification will always add in the cost of re-signalling junction upgrades even the new rolling stock.

The cost of electrification on the GWML is costing more than the original ^1B, that figure was a political figure not plucked out of thin air but as Mark Carne said in the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) news article a little optimistic.

He is right about access time, for every hour we get to physically do work there will be 4 or 5 time that just planning it and that does not include what any normal project would do review designs etc