Making up the rules, again?

[whole diary]

[thetrout]

The passenger charter is perfectly clear.

If no seats then we pay out.

It's also considered a done thing that if you cannot get a seat in First Class and as a result you take a seat in Standard Class (which is available) then you are compensated. Rightly so in my opinion.

I can't see how a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) can justify not refunding the additional First Class part of the fare if you didn't actually use the service on the train.


A long time ago I had issue on a Southern Trains service where I purchased a First Class Ticket to travel from Brighton - London Victoria. The train was short formed and had 5 Carriages instead of 10. There was a "Celebrity" onboard and some passengers who claimed they had rights to deny me entry to First Class Private Security told me First Class was off limits. Any other passenger I think would have accepted this, sat in Standard Class and claimed back from the TOC if they could be bothered.

I however being the awkward sod I am, was having absolutely none of it. To cut a long story short. A vicious verbal argument broke out, I quoted NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage), that got the BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) called and the train delayed.

Southern kinda missed the point and said that First Class would have been refunded if the accommodation was full (it wasn't) but refunded me the fare in full + a good will gesture for the distress I received and subsequent severe delays I encountered as a result (A missed flight from Stansted )

[NickB]

Quick update:  Mr Hopwood has a polite yet informative email in his inbox with a request to investigate the issue and confirm FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s policy to me.

[NickB]

A response from Mr Hopwood's office.  Trimming off the intro and 'Standard Class has improved' sections:

"I was disappointed to learn that you have been advised compensation is not payable on the occasions when you have been unable to get a seat in First Class. As you have rightly ascertained, this is not the case and compensation is payable under the terms set in our Passengers Charter, and this will be the difference between First and Standard Class based on the cost of your ticket. I have raised this as a training issue across our customer relations department, and also added an alert to your contact information to ensure that compensation is processed correctly when you have the need to claim."

So at least everyone is clear on the rules now.  It was a nice response, delivered promptly, so I can't fault that.

They are still encouraging me to make a seat reservation.  I am not sure how I feel about this...  Given that I travel on a Worcester-->Padd HST^▸ (High Speed Train), but only boarding at Maidenhead, I am concerned that if I start making reservations then this will quickly escalate to the point that everyone makes reservations and suddenly there are empty seats with reservations on and even more people standing.  It seems like an escalation that will keep me happy in the short term but ultimately make the situation worse for the wider population.  I'd be curious as to others' thoughts on this.

[thetrout]

You run the risk of a verbal headache when someone is sat in your reserved seat each morning that's for sure...

As much as I want to say it's a good idea. In practice passengers aren't very bright when it comes to the railway. So they won't sit in a seat reserved from Bath Spa - Exeter St Davids if they are travelling from London Paddington - Bath Spa.

Whilst I am generalising there big time. It's predominantly true. I have got called out for sitting in reserved seats when making a journey that is not covered under the reserved label and told "You can't do that" by other passengers. Trying to explain the method is also hard work.


Sidestepping this issue slightly. A friend of mine had to stand from Westbury - London Paddington (Standard Class Ticket Holder) and wrote an email to FGW^▸ (First Great Western). FGW refunded the ticket but took a ^10 admin fee... What is all that about?

[NickB]

I would pursue that ^10 with a passion. There is no basis for that deduction being made and infers that they have treated it as an 'unused ticket' rather than a breach of Passengers Charter.

[TaplowGreen]

 I have raised this as a training issue across our customer relations department,

Following the issues raised and dodgy practices unmasked on "Dispatches" this week, together with the totally inappropriate announcements made on the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) train following a recent suicide I think the FGW training department will be quite busy for a while.

[Penzance-Paddington]

Within the past month these are getting rejected on the grounds that I didn't reserve a seat and, quote "no reservation equals no refund". Lovely.



Thanks

When you buy  a ticket you buy a ticket for travel, not for a seat. The only circumstance where you'd be entitled to a seat is if you reserved a seat at the point of purchase.

[Brucey]

Within the past month these are getting rejected on the grounds that I didn't reserve a seat and, quote "no reservation equals no refund". Lovely.



Thanks

When you buy  a ticket you buy a ticket for travel, not for a seat. The only circumstance where you'd be entitled to a seat is if you reserved a seat at the point of purchase.

The FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Passenger Charter entitles NickB to a refund in these circumstances:

If you hold a First Class ticket and there are no seats available we will offer compensation in
National Rail Travel Vouchers or as an e-voucher credit to your online FGW account, based
on the cost of your ticket. This will be the difference between the corresponding First and
Standard Class ticket and for Season Ticket holders we will work out the proportional daily
rate* for the affected journey. To claim please contact our Customer Relations team with your
journey details and your original ticket / Season Ticket details.

https://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/about-us/customer-services/passenger-charter

[NickB]

Yep, I did mention in the original posting that this is for a First Class ticket.
FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have acknowledged, via mark hopwood's office, that they were incorrect to be declining the refunds. Responses since then have paid out without issue, although the amount of compensation is very varied which indicates to me that the processes for refunds are not clearly defined to the customer services staff.

[JayMac]

Don't worry folks, Penzance-Paddington seems to have a thing about seats on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) services.

The matter that caused concern was resolved in mid-May. Looks likely P-P may have read no further in the thread than the post from April 23rd that he quoted.

P-P has said elsewhere that he is training to be an RPO. It's perfectly possible he may encounter a situation where 1st Class is full and a 1st Class ticket holder asks about their refund rights after having to travel in Standard Class. As Brucey has pointed out, passengers in this situation are entitled to a refund of the difference  between the 1st Class and Standard Class fares for the effected journey.

And it's not just something GWR do as a charter commitment. It's an entitlement laid down in the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

That's today's RPO training module completed.