Glastonbury Festival founder Michael Eavis receives locomotive honour - BBC News

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

I bet Hitachi are really looking forward to a muddy Glastonbury :-)

May just be wibble, but I heard that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) were retaining 'one or two full HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sets for events such as Glastonbury'

This has been suggested a few times in the wnxx and railuk forums, and each time a GWR insider (who posts in both) has quickly replied that it is most definitely wibble...

Paul

Indeed. That sounds far too much like sensible contingency planning to be true.

[broadgage]

Agree, regretfully.
GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) in particular, and the railway more generally "don't do" contingency planning very well at all.
The new trains will no doubt be just adequate under normal conditions, but with no significant reserves available for special events and holidays.

The mantra has always been "we cant justify buying or leasing extra rolling stock for use once a year" This is no doubt true if considering each such event in isolation. However it seems to me that considering the total of such events, that extra stock CAN be justified.

Consider the following days of extra demand in an average year, remembering that extra demand is not on bank holidays themselves, but the days before and after.

Christmas and new year holidays---------------------------------4 days
Easter---------------------------------------------------------------4
Glastonbury--------------------------------------------------------2
Major rugby matches in Cardiff-----------------------------------4
Major football games in London----------------------------------4
Reading festival----------------------------------------------------2
Race meetings------------------------------------------------------2
3 spring/summer bank holidays-----------------------------------6
Major music concerts----------------------------------------------2
Henley Regatta-----------------------------------------------------2
Half term hols-------------------------------------------------------3

Add to that perhaps 4 days a year of infrastructure failure, when an extra couple of trains could enable a service to leave say Paddington, on time even if the incoming service is delayed by snow, rain, signal failures, buckled rails, or exploded pigeons.

Extra stock would seem worthwhile, and the withdrawal of HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) from front line service would be the classic opportunity to keep a few as a reserve fleet.
Therefore wont happen.

From the GWR point of view there is another good reason for NOT keeping HSTs as a reserve fleet.
It is not just me who considers the IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) to be a downgrade from "proper inter-city trains" to regional DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit).
Keeping a few HSTs would prolong unfavourable comparisons.

[Celestial]

I think it is even more than that.  There are 6 or 7 internationals at the Principality Stadium each year, added to which a good few music concerts there too each year.  The Cheltenham festival alone is more than two days.  There are airshows at Weston and Dawlish (at least) too. And Glastonbury arrivals are spread out too.

But I think you're right. I don't think the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) will agree to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) keeping some back, although at least we have a few short sets trundling up and down between Cardiff and Bristol now, which is a bonus.
 

[The Tall Controller]

Even with sporting/music/air show events take into consideration, you still only have roughly 50 days where the extra stock could be justified. Guaranteed use on 50 days in a 365 day year isn't really a good investment given most trains are probably bought to work close to 300 days a year.

Regarding keeping two HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) back...although you could make them run this year but they won't be allowed to run after that. May as well plan as you mean to go on.

[grahame]

Even with sporting/music/air show events take into consideration, you still only have roughly 50 days where the extra stock could be justified. Guaranteed use on 50 days in a 365 day year isn't really a good investment given most trains are probably bought to work close to 300 days a year.

Regarding keeping two HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) back...although you could make them run this year but they won't be allowed to run after that. May as well plan as you mean to go on.

It's a huge shame that the 50 days are broadly the same ones across Great Britain.  August Bank Holiday is at the start of August in Scotland but towards the end in England ... now if the Scots would celebrate Christmas on 5th December not 25th ... and the Welsh on 25th January ... but even then the logistics of moving the stock around, maintaining a fading type and the right combination of route and motive power type knowledge in the crews would become an issue.

Now - heavy loading times on long distance may differ from heavy loading times on suburban services.  And also take a look at what happens to certain services such as the Cardiff terminator during special events already.   Is it not beyond the bounds of possibility for 12 car 387 services to be cut to 8 car when events are happening, with the IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) normally used for the Cardiffs diverted to peak-busters, and 8 car 387 formations running the Cardiff trains. I also have to wonder if 769s could turn up at Bedwyn ... there may be new metrics to flexibility and load balancing.

[bobm]

For the Cheltenham Festival this year the Cardiffs ran as normal.  Instead they terminated/started some Bedwyn services at Reading rather than running to/from Paddington.

[JayMac]

By the time the 2019 Glastonbury Festival comes around GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) will have no full length HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) left in their fleet. If they want one or two back they'll have to pay spot hire charges. And I don't think they can reform a full length set from the short sets. Staff for those wouldn't have the traction/route knowledge for Castle Cary and eastward. GWR would also need to get the necessary Network Rail clearances/track access. Focus at GWR has been the conversion to IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train). HST traction and route knowledge has, I suspect, been winding down.

To provide services for the festival they will have a fleet of Class 80x from which there is, I believe, sufficient capacity to move the numbers of festival goers. In previous years there has been extension of Class 16x Bedwyn services to Castle Cary. For 2019 the IET fleet should be more than adequate.

The more spartan interiors of the Class 80x should also be easier to clean if Glastonbury 2019 is a muddy one.

[IndustryInsider]

As far as I know, 12-car Class 387s are still the plan for the weekend big events at the Millennium Principality Stadium.

[bobm]

As far as I know, 12-car Class 387s are still the plan for the weekend big events at the Millennium Principality Stadium.

You can delete the "the" too apparently. 

At Swindon there are now 8 and 12 car 387 stopboards for the trains that run into the station before being stabled at Cocklebury sidings.  A clue might be if those boards appear further west...

[didcotdean]

The more spartan interiors of the Class 80x should also be easier to clean if Glastonbury 2019 is a muddy one.

Maybe they could concentrate all the units left with the first lot of cloth still on the seats on these, then rip it out afterwards

[a-driver]

I think it’s a possibility that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) will retain some full length HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sets. Swansea will now be signing 2+4 castle sets so they will retain HST knowledge as will Bristol and Exeter.  Some suggest this is an indication they will be retaining HST sets. There’s also concern the IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) won’t cope with holiday loadings in the West Country.
Rumour has it, the cost of running an additional service using an IET is astronomical plus, they won’t have additional resources in the form of Turbos to run to Castle Cary and apparently Hitachi don't want there trains getting dirty/won’t pay for cleaning.

[IndustryInsider]

I’m not stating those rumours aren’t true, but I’ve not heard any of them.  Castle Class HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) will be running as far as Cardiff (from Penzance).

[Lee]

Rumour has it, the cost of running an additional service using an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) is astronomical plus, they won’t have additional resources in the form of Turbos to run to Castle Cary and apparently Hitachi don't want there trains getting dirty/won’t pay for cleaning.

Channeling my inner Richard Littlejohn - "You couldnt make it up!!!"

[a-driver]

I’m not stating those rumours aren’t true, but I’ve not heard any of them.  Castle Class HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) will be running as far as Cardiff (from Penzance).

According to a Swansea driver there will be a few Penzance to Swansea services operated by Castle HSTs with Swansea drivers learning down to Taunton.

IndustryInsider:  Have you heard any rumours regarding the Paddington to Cheltenham services?

[grahame]

Technical question.  With HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) through their life, the individual formations have changed relatively easily with the addition or removal of carriages (and we see a glorious mix of green ones and blue ones) - will that be as easy with Castle classes with automatic doors?  I have to wonder if a 2+4 could become a 2+6 or 2+8 as capacity busters - whether the extras come from another set or even elsewhere.