17:36 relief

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Split off from a public board ... so we can share ideas that are being floated

What's happening ?   Is it going over to 150 in May ?

I believe John R meant in April 2017 before the upgrades across the network in May 2017, rather than April 17th

The question as I read it is "with current growth and a nearly-full 17:36 already, how do we maintain growth / not turn people off using the service in the period prior to a strengthening of that train in 2 years time?".  There have been some discussions already, but at an exploratory stage, and now is a good time to make practical suggestions (or suggestions that you don't know about, but may turn out to be practical  ).

Indeed Graham, that's exactly what I was thinking. My only thought was perhaps there is a pacer diagram in Devon where a 153 would suffice, so they could be swapped. Would mean ecs working each day between Exeter and Westbury though with the extra costs that entails.

John R - hadn't thought of that one.

Other ideas:

a) Run an extra service at 16:36 (previously discussed) and that may only get as far as MKM^» (Melksham (Station code) - next trains), but I think volumes are such we may be able to justify it

b) Allow customers to travel on 17:00 and 18:00 from Swindon and switch to 234 bus at Chippenham Station (met the MD of First Bus Bath Bristol last night / may be on the cards)

c) The daily set swap for the TransWilts occurs between the 18:21 arrival from Swindon and the 18:32 departure back.   When does the incoming train arrive (attached to what) and could its arrival be moved up so that it can double up on the 16:15 round trip from Westbury?

[John R]

Another thought - FGW^▸ (First Great Western) agrees to take on the Vivarail demonstrator (presumably at minimal cost as Vivarail need the trial to showcase their train). This is deployed on, say, the Looe branch releasing a 153 for the TW service. This could bridge the gap from May 16 to May 17 until other stock becomes available.

[anthony215]

Put that D unit on a self contained diagram on the west country branches like you have suggested or perhaps on the severn beach branch

[John R]

Until reliability is proven I'd keep it off anything that is heavily trafficked and where a failure could result in a lot of bad publicity.  So an out of peak season start on the Looe branch would be ideal.

[Chris from Nailsea]

So an out of peak season start on the Looe branch would be ideal.

Purely out of idle curiosity, where is Looe? 

[Adelante_CCT]

a) Run an extra service at 16:36 (previously discussed) and that may only get as far as MKM^» (Melksham (Station code) - next trains), but I think volumes are such we may be able to justify it

Apologies if this has been discussed before elsewhere but would I be correct in assuming the 16:24 from Cheltenham then forms the 17:54 back?

[grahame]

a) Run an extra service at 16:36 (previously discussed) and that may only get as far as MKM^» (Melksham (Station code) - next trains), but I think volumes are such we may be able to justify it

Apologies if this has been discussed before elsewhere but would I be correct in assuming the 16:24 from Cheltenham then forms the 17:54 back?

Correct

[John R]

Still thinking about how more stock could be allocated to the route...

On Friday the 0509 Plymouth to Paddington was replaced by a Cl 150 from Exeter to Bristol. Not for the first time either.  So my question is, is this a spare unit sitting at Exeter, or did its journey up to Bristol result in cancellations and short formations elsewhere in Devon?

Overall, how much spare stock is sitting around in the peak? Appreciate that some is needed as contingency, but is there a location where the spare stock is so infrequently called upon that it would be better employed actually providing a service and accepting the occasional cancellation or short formation.

[JayMac]

RealTime Trains shows it ran as a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) from Exeter.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20015/2015/05/01/advanced

[John R]

I can assure you it wasn't.  The set swap at Bristol did confuse the Passenger Information Systems though, as the onward service from BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) was announced as "formed of two coaches, first class is at the front of the train"...

[John R]

Another thought - FGW^▸ (First Great Western) agrees to take on the Vivarail demonstrator (presumably at minimal cost as Vivarail need the trial to showcase their train). This is deployed on, say, the Looe branch releasing a 153 for the TW service. This could bridge the gap from May 16 to May 17 until other stock becomes available.

Interesting to see that trial use of the Vivarail D train is being very seriously considered as part of the new franchise. 

[grahame]

a) Run an extra service at 16:36 (previously discussed) and that may only get as far as MKM^» (Melksham (Station code) - next trains), but I think volumes are such we may be able to justify it

Apologies if this has been discussed before elsewhere but would I be correct in assuming the 16:24 from Cheltenham then forms the 17:54 back?

Updating this topic ...

The 16:24 arrival at Swindon platform 2 does go back to Cheltenham Spa at 17:54
The 16:33 arrival at Westbury platform 2 waits there until 17:11 when it leaves for Warminster.

We have looked long at hard at ways of getting the train from Swindon at 16:24 to Westbury for 17:11, and the train at Westbury at 16:33 to Swindon for 17:54.    All very tight indeed - in fact it gets ruled out by the inability to leave Swindon until 16:36 (unless you delay the 15:30 London to Bristol train) and it wouldn't then get to Westbury for 17:11.   That 17:11 looks at first glance like a right 'lemon' of a train - Dilton Marsh and Warminster only, 10 minutes after a Portsmouth train that also calls at Warminster.   However, it's needed both to meet the SLC^▸ (Service Level Commitment) for Dilton Marsh and (this is why we're not messing) to form the 17:28 from Warminster which takes a significant number of daily passengers from there.

However, TransWilts volumes are now such that the previous idea of running a train as far as Melksham and back begin to look sensible on balance.   Previously, we feared that would abstract passengers from the previous and next trains (15:12 and 17:36) so be an extra cost to offset against the gain.   But now, with the 15:12 and 17:36 both full and standing, that abstraction would be welcome as it would give more passenger capacity on those other two trains - as well as encouraging new traffic.  Works out well as a 16:48 from Swindon, 17:14 to 17:20 at Melksham. And helps provide a commute into Melksham option too.  That latter not ideal (yet) as morning arrivals from Swindon have a big gap - but it would suite some.

Here's where we could be headed ...

[grahame]

The 16:24 arrival at Swindon platform 2 does go back to Cheltenham Spa at 17:54
The 16:33 arrival at Westbury platform 2 waits there until 17:11 when it leaves for Warminster.

Did I mention ...
The 16:15 arrival at Salisbury platform 6 from Romsey, returning there at 16:56
The 17:15 arrival at Salisbury platform 6 from Romsey, returning there at 17:56

If anyone can see how use can be made of these (total) 210 layover minutes - that's 3.5 hours downtime - in Wiltshire between 4 and 6 p.m., please let me know.  It's very frustrating to see trains sitting around when people want to be travelling!

[bbam87]

Thanks for this post grahame and for adding me to this forum and board.

While a 16:48 departure from Swindon would be great, only going as far as Melksham would make it redundant for many people who would depart it at Trowbridge and Westbury (including myself who lives in Warminster).  A large percentage of those people that catch the 17:36 from Swindon travel all the way through to Trowbridge and Westbury, as you know.  A lot of these users would also wish for and benefit from an earlier train than the 17:36.  Is there anyway that the timing of the 17:36 can be brought forward earlier, rather than putting in an additional train at 16:48, as the 18:48 follows closely after the 17:36 in comparison to other time gaps.

[grahame]

Thanks for this post grahame and for adding me to this forum and board.

While a 16:48 departure from Swindon would be great, only going as far as Melksham would make it redundant for many people who would depart it at Trowbridge and Westbury (including myself who lives in Warminster).  A large percentage of those people that catch the 17:36 from Swindon travel all the way through to Trowbridge and Westbury, as you know.  A lot of these users would also wish for and benefit from an earlier train than the 17:36.  Is there anyway that the timing of the 17:36 can be brought forward earlier, rather than putting in an additional train at 16:48, as the 18:48 follows closely after the 17:36 in comparison to other time gaps.

Very much aware that the 16:48 wouldn't work directly for passengers south of Melksham - that's why it was ruled out in that form until now.   But as there are up to 40 passengers getting off the 17:36 at Melksham, and 20+ off the 15:12, it would offer some relief from overcrowding and at least allow Trowbridge and beyond passengers a bit of space on the 17:36.

Pulling the 17:36 earlier would have to be to 17:19 so it could get out of the way of the 17:30 Bristol Express after Chippenham.  But that would cut the area that 5 O'Clock finishers could get to the station is Swindon to just 28% of what t is at present and I suspect we would have some very very upset customers (or ex customers!).

>>> 19 ** 2
361
>>> 36 ** 2
1296
>>> 361 / 1296.0
0.2785493827160494

That's a simplistic calculation ... and I would be willing to have my calculation / hypothesis disproved, but I don't think the solution of grabbing a quarter of an hour there would compensate [many] others having to wait a further hour.

The "real" solution comes when services start running through ... the 17:28 from Warminster being fed up from Salisbury (and probably becoming 17:35 from Warminster) then the 17:11 off Westbury could run that bit later (say 17:26) and form the 17:56 onward to Romsey from Salisbury.   That would be fed off the 16:48 from Swindon.  Various cross-franchise issues involved though. And the 16:33 arrival at Westbury would go up to Swindon to form the 17:54 from there to Cheltenham Spa. The issue that leaves you with is the 17:35 from Warminster gets tight for timing as it's supposed to be part of a near-clockface service up to Worcester.  Another consideration in that mix is the freight path through Melksham at 16:53 which could (along with the 16:48 from Swindon) make it impossible to find a path for the new Westbury to Swindon service.