Franchise Announcement

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

Indeed, I see nothing in this for them - turbos to Newbury/Reading stoppers it's looking like. Hope their fares reduce as a consequence

[stuving]

I've seen mention of 'upgraded' HST^▸ (High Speed Train) somewhere in the documentation. Don't think they've gone yet (in this Direct Award, anyhow - but they're days on the GW^▸ (Great Western) must be numbered now)

If you look at the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) words, the choice between the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) with go-faster stripes and a life-extended HST (mainly by picking the best  ones, perhaps?) hasn't been made yet.

[stuving]

That's almost the end of the mini-franchise, and doesn't sound like what's meant by "more modern trains". Nor does it explain what is being shown for Bristol-Exeter.

I'd have thought that the 387/1s (the final few only just entering service) and the small number of additional units to follow on from the 387/2s (387/3s perhaps, but brand new to GW^▸ (Great Western)) are definitely 'more modern trains' than current.  I agree the 365s may be debatable though, aren't they just electric versions of 165?

But a mix of 386 and 365 has been predicted in certain forums for a few months now, and it's a definite improvement on the original plan for a big part of the 319 fleet.

Paul

My comment was about the boosted IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) - that's where the 'more modern trains' comes from. However, I was probably reading to much into wording that has gained in confusion as it has been edited down.

[paul7575]

I'm not sure the words do suggest that - more that it does not need a locomotive to be (un)coupled. Remember that the bi-mode was competing as a solution with loco-hauled electrics. But it should be technically feasible to start the engines, raise the pantographs, and swap power all on the move (or the inverse).

One of the original IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) technical specifications was:

TS1577 It is an essential requirement that a bi-mode IEP train shall be capable of switching between
modes whilst at any speed from stationary up to line speed.

Paul

[Tim]

One wonders whether the 800s/AT300s will be able to swap over power while on the move? Otherwise all stopping at Newbury will be a pain....

The ability to do that was included in the original specification back in the day it was called HST2.  I have no idea if it survived.

[paul7575]

The ability to do that was included in the original specification back in the day it was called HST2.  I have no idea if it survived.

It survived until IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)'s train technical spec of 2008, therefore after HST2, hence my recent post.

Paul

[IndustryInsider]

Railway Gazette has more:

The franchise will also deploy 58 four-car EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) on Thames Valley suburban services from London Paddington. These will include 21 Class 365 units coming off-lease at Great Northern under the Thameslink Programme, the 29 Class 387/1 units currently entering service at Thameslink as a stopgap measure pending delivery of Siemens Class 700s and an extra eight Class 387s to be ordered from Bombardier as an option on Govia Thameslink Railway^s current order for Gatwick Express Class 387/2 units.

So for the Thames Valley that's 232 electric carriages replacing (or part replacing) 156 Turbo/Sprinter carriages.  That seems quite a lot, even for an interim period before Crossrail fully begins?  Bodes well for capacity for commuting from the suburban stations out of London and it looks like we can finally forget about trains older than Turbos replacing them in the form of Class 319s!

I would guess that the 365s will only be in operation on Thames Valley services until Crossrail is up and running when they will move elsewhere.  South Wales possibly.

[paul7575]

Does your total number of Turbos include those that will have to remain for the North Downs line? 

So the EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) fleet will be proportionately even larger in comparison to the Turbos it replaces?

Paul

[ChrisB]

And the couple needed for Bedwyn presumably - and Oxford-Banbury and the Cotswold Line stopper. (maybe the same units for the latter two services, I guess)

[IndustryInsider]

Does your total number of Turbos include those that will have to remain for the North Downs line? 

So the EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) fleet will be proportionately even larger in comparison to the Turbos it replaces?

No it doesn't, hence my 'part replacing' comment, so yes indeed it would be and even larger increase.

[Adelante_CCT]

Don't forget the Greenford to West Ealing shuttle.

[Lee]

Specification for the Great Western second direct award and a summary of consultation responses - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/great-western-franchise-response-to-the-2014-consultation

[didcotdean]

Seat-wise though, won't it not be as big an increase as it seems since these are 2+2 layout throughout?

[IndustryInsider]

Indeed there will be a reduction in the number of seats per carriage as both the 387s and 365s are all 2+2 seating as far as I know (plus these EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) are all nominally 20m long rather than the 23m long Turbo vehicles).  2+2 seating will of course will be a bonus for travellers as 2+3 seating isn't great as we've discussed many times.  That's another plus as many of the 319s still have a 2+3 layout.

[didcotdean]

With 12 and 8 carriage formations to be the normal configuration through the Thames Valley (main and relief lines respectively) someone with more knowledge than me can add everything up to see how it fits