paul7575
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« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2015, 10:23:31 » |
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That's almost the end of the mini-franchise, and doesn't sound like what's meant by "more modern trains". Nor does it explain what is being shown for Bristol-Exeter.
I'd have thought that the 387/1s (the final few only just entering service) and the small number of additional units to follow on from the 387/2s (387/3s perhaps, but brand new to GW▸ ) are definitely 'more modern trains' than current. I agree the 365s may be debatable though, aren't they just electric versions of 165? But a mix of 386 and 365 has been predicted in certain forums for a few months now, and it's a definite improvement on the original plan for a big part of the 319 fleet. Paul
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ChrisB
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« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2015, 11:10:43 » |
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165s then.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2015, 11:13:04 » |
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Smart Ticketing in the Thames Valley Progressing the opportunities of introducing smart ticketing with the Department for Transport as part of the SEFT intitiative
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grahame
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« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2015, 11:31:54 » |
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I had a tweet via Railways Illustrated that said "Hitachi have been named by First as preferred supplier for 29 extra IEP▸ trains for FGW▸ subject to approval by the DfT» ." Had another tweet via Rail magazine that said "Proposed FGW Hitachi AT300 fleet will have more powerful engines than IEP sets to cope with hills in Devon and Cornwall". I am now confused because I thought IEP was based on AT300 and i have also seen mention that 360 AT300 vehicles have been ordered. Also I guess we should remember that we are only weeks away from a General Election See press release / front page of Hitachi web site ... from a very we'll informed source - NOT IEP trains for Devon / Cornwll but similar - bigger fuel tanks to reach Penzance and bigger engines to climb the banks, for example. And working out a clever way to do long term stuff from within a short term franchise
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Coffee Shop Admin, Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, TravelWatch SouthWest Board Member
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stuving
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« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2015, 11:39:36 » |
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There's a DfT» interactive map linked from the press release. It say something a bit different, or at least with different emphasis, from FGW▸ 's and does cover services through non-FGW stations. For example: Paddington to Plymouth and Penzance
The benefits are: additional services from May 2017 and further extra services from December 2018 timetable improvements from May 2017 with further improvements from December 2018 new trains or upgraded high speed trains introduced ... Reading to Basingstoke
The benefits are: Electrical Multiple Unit (EMU▸ ) introduced South Eastern Flexible Ticketing introduced Reading to Gatwick Airport
The benefits are: additional services from May 2017 and further extra services from December 2018 timetable improvements from May 2017 with further improvements from December 2018 South Eastern Flexible Ticketing introduced closed circuit television (CCTV▸ )
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ChrisB
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« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2015, 11:50:44 » |
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See press release / front page of Hitachi web site ... from a very we'll informed source - NOT IEP▸ trains for Devon / Cornwll but similar - bigger fuel tanks to reach Penzance and bigger engines to climb the banks, for example. And working out a clever way to do long term stuff from within a short term franchise AT300s - aren't they what Scotrail have ordered?
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stuving
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« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2015, 11:54:58 » |
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See press release / front page of Hitachi web site ... from a very we'll informed source - NOT IEP▸ trains for Devon / Cornwll but similar - bigger fuel tanks to reach Penzance and bigger engines to climb the banks, for example. And working out a clever way to do long term stuff from within a short term franchise From the Hitachi press release: London, 23 March, 2015^ Hitachi Rail Europe announced today that it has been named by FirstGroup as preferred supplier, subject to contract, for the supply of 29 trains for the new First Great Western franchise.This is subject to approval by the Department for Transport.
The fleet of 29 bi-mode AT300 trains would run primarily from London Paddington to Plymouth and Penzance, replacing 40-year-old High Speed Trains on the key intercity route to the south west. Made up of seven nine-car and 22 five-car trains, with an option for 30 more, the mixed fleet would allow for flexible use, including 10-car formations (two five-cars coupled together) for through-services to/from the capital.
Mark Hopwood, Managing Director of First Great Western said: ^Following the direct award of the franchise announced by the Department for Transport today, I am delighted that we have selected Hitachi Rail Europe as our preferred supplier for new intercity trains, should the DfT» approve our plans. The fleet currently running on routes in the South West of England, is nearly 40 years old, and passengers would greatly benefit from brand new, highly comfortable trains. FirstGroup has conducted a competitive procurement exercise for these trains and we are close to securing private financing for the deal shortly. The DfT will be making a final decision by the end of June^.
Andy Barr, Chief Operating Officer, Hitachi Rail Europe said: ^The Class 800 bi-mode trains were initially designed for the Great Western and East Coast main lines and we have refined the design further for the challenges of the route to Plymouth and Penzance. We have put a lot of thought into ensuring a passenger environment that is comfortable for short and long-distance journeys, incorporating feedback by passenger groups.
^Today^s announcement cements our already strong relationship with FirstGroup and we are looking forward to working closely to progress negotiations and start building the trains, ready for use in the South West of England from 2018 onwards.^
The fleet of AT300 trains will be closely related to the Class 800 bi-mode trains designed for the Department for Transport^s Intercity Express Programme, but will utilise higher engine operating power to cope with the gradients in Devon and Cornwall. They will run as electric trains between London and Newbury, and are equipped with bigger fuel tanks to cater for the long distance journeys to Plymouth and Penzance. So I think AT300 does apply to the family of design variants, with a class number each.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2015, 11:58:27 » |
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One wonders whether the 800s/AT300s will be able to swap over power while on the move? Otherwise all stopping at Newbury will be a pain....
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John R
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« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2015, 12:03:38 » |
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Assuming a transition on the move is possible, it's possible that this could enhance the business case for extending beyond Newbury, even if only to Bedwyn. As the cost benefit analysis would then include the additional running under the wires of the long distance services. Eurostars managed to "pan up" whilst on the move so it is possible.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2015, 12:06:12 » |
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Further from the press release - notes to Editors XC▸ -style seat reservations included Key train features for passengers: ^Additional leg room in standard class airline style seats ^More seats per train (9-car or 10-car formations) ^Passenger Wi-Fi ^Power sockets accessible from every seat ^Increased reliability ^LCD seat reservation displays with sophisticated traffic light vacancy notification at every seat ^Air conditioning ^Fully pressure-sealed vehicle for passenger comfort when entering tunnels at high speed ^Increased height in overhead luggage racks to accommodate airline-style hand luggage
About AT 300 trains
The AT300 trains are a train platform developed by Hitachi Rail. Their most famous relatives in the UK▸ are the Class 395 Javelin^ train currently in service in Kent and the Class 800/801 train for the Intercity Express Programme. This family of trains is designed for intercity travel, with speeds of up to 140 mph for the Class 395 Javelin and 125 mph for the Class 800/801 trains for electric operation and 100 mph for bi-mode operation. The Class AT300 has larger fuel tanks than the Class 800 bi-mode trains and engines that operate at a higher power output.
About bi-mode trains:
Bi-mode trains are trains with a dual electric and diesel propulsion capability.The trains can run on electrified routes using the catenary as power source, allowing for a smooth transition to non-electrified routes, where diesel powerpacks provide tractive power. Seems to answer my question above. Smooth transition I take to mean on the move.
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ray951
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« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2015, 12:17:26 » |
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See press release / front page of Hitachi web site ... from a very we'll informed source - NOT IEP▸ trains for Devon / Cornwll but similar - bigger fuel tanks to reach Penzance and bigger engines to climb the banks, for example. And working out a clever way to do long term stuff from within a short term franchise Thanks that makes sense now. So we have 100% electric IEP, Bi-mode IEP and Bi-mode AT300 (with more powerful engines) all based on AT300. I assume that means that there will be no HST▸ 's running on FGW▸ after all these have been delivered?
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ChrisB
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« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2015, 12:20:40 » |
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I've seen mention of 'upgraded' HST▸ somewhere in the documentation. Don't think they've gone yet (in this Direct Award, anyhow - but they're days on the GW▸ must be numbered now)
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stuving
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« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2015, 12:21:22 » |
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Further from the press release - notes to Editors
XC▸ -style seat reservations included
Well, they were required in the IEP▸ spec, so why would they be taken out? Seems to answer my question above. Smooth transition I take to mean on the move.
I'm not sure the words do suggest that - more that it does not need a locomotive to be (un)coupled. Remember that the bi-mode was competing as a solution with loco-hauled electrics. But it should be technically feasible to start the engines, raise the pantographs, and swap power all on the move (or the inverse).
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grahame
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« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2015, 12:23:13 » |
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... even if only to Bedwyn. ...
In amongst all the news this morning, the feedback I'm hearing from Bedwyn is - err - somewhat downhearted. Follow up on this to come; very much caught between a rock and a hard place on those services.
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Coffee Shop Admin, Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, TravelWatch SouthWest Board Member
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