First Group on the ECML

[whole diary]

[stuving]

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere already, but it appears that First have created an new open access operator to run on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) from October
East Coast Trains Limited

https://www.firstgroupplc.com/about-firstgroup/uk-rail/eastcoast.aspx

Surely that's not new - ECTL dates from 2015, and was granted its track access agreement in 2016 for services starting "no earlier than the Subsidiary Change Date 2021".

[grahame]

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere already, but it appears that First have created an new open access operator to run on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) from October
East Coast Trains Limited

https://www.firstgroupplc.com/about-firstgroup/uk-rail/eastcoast.aspx

Follows through from http://www.passenger.chat/15480 - though that's a very old thread so doesn't have current date stuff in it.  There may be more around, though not intersecting or bordering the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) area, our coverage has been thin.  First group are already on the East Coast mainline - at least at Doncaster and south thereof - with Hull trains, and also they're the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) running TransPennine Express which come on south of York and goes up to the North East.

[old original]

Obviously I didn't go back far enough!   Delete if required

[grahame]

Obviously I didn't go back far enough!   Delete if required

I have too long a memory of what's been written in the past, and an ability to write direct SQL queries that go through all the messages posted and help me find these things.  So I have an (unfair) advantage when searching.

Worth bringing up to date ... I will merge in due course!

[grahame]

Obviously I didn't go back far enough!   Delete if required

Worth bringing up to date ... I will merge in due course!

OK - moved and merged, and now high up in recentcy (if that's a word).

By 2021, FirstGroup will offer a new travel choice for passengers between London, north-east England and Scotland with great value fares and high-quality service.
- Five trains a day each way from London King?s Cross to Edinburgh, via Stevenage, Newcastle and Morpeth
- Average fares of less than GBP-25
- On-board catering and free wi-fi in one high-quality class of travel
- Over 1.5m additional seats every year on brand new, state-of-the-art trains
- Seats reservable online up to a few minutes before departure
- First service of the day from London arriving in Edinburgh by 10am, one hour earlier than is possible now.

[IndustryInsider]

Worth bringing up to date

The question is...will it still be happening at all, or delayed?

[stuving]

Worth bringing up to date

The question is...will it still be happening at all, or delayed?

Well, the new trains won't quite be ready for May - but obviously that's only a clue as to what might really happen. From Railway News:

Hitachi Begins Manufacturing East Coast Trains Order

Hitachi Rail has begun manufacturing the new intercity fleet for open access operator East Coast Trains (FirstGroup) at its Newton Aycliffe site.

The start of manufacturing of the fully electric trains heralds the beginning of a ?new phase of train building? at the company?s Newton Aycliffe factory. That?s because the new trains for East Coast Trains Ltd, which will begin running services on the Edinburgh-London line from October 2021, incorporate a more extensive manufacturing programme than previous orders. For example, for this order the workforce will build the new fleet from empty aluminium shells.

Responding to the impact of coronavirus, Hitachi Rail says it has been working hard to prepare the factory so that work on the East Coast Trains order can begin in a safe way.

The five 5-car Class 803 trains will carry passengers on the East Coast Main Line five times a day, calling at six stations, providing a sustainable alternative to flying for the capital connection. As an open access operator, East Coast Trains Ltd is also not subject to a franchise agreement and will run services competing with the current DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)-owned LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) operator (which runs Class 800 and Class 801 Hitachi Azumas^▸ (Brand name for Class 80x trains on LNER)).

Unlike the Azuma trains, the Class 803 fleet for East Coast Trains won?t be fitted with a diesel engine. To ensure they can continue running in the event of a power failure, they will be equipped with batteries instead.

[broadgage]

A battery rather than a diesel engine sounds a good idea for when the wires come down.
Hard seats and no buffet presumably.

[grahame]

A battery rather than a diesel engine sounds a good idea for when the wires come down.
Hard seats and no buffet presumably.

From https://www.firstgroupplc.com/news-and-media/latest-news/2019/21-03-19.aspx - as much as I could find on catering:

Under the plans, customers will benefit from an average fare of less than GBP-25, on-board catering and free Wi-Fi, all offered in one high-quality class of travel. FirstGroup already operates an open access service, the award-winning Hull Trains.

A year later ... https://www.firstgroupplc.com/news-and-media/latest-news/2020/23-04-20a.aspx there's less on the on board offering and more on going forward in spite of coronavirus.

[IndustryInsider]

A battery rather than a diesel engine sounds a good idea for when the wires come down.

Yes, indeed.  Exclusive use between London and Edinburgh with the majority of diversionary routes electrified makes that possible.  However, the one diversionary route that will presumably be off limits is from Doncaster to Peterborough via Lincoln?

[stuving]

A battery rather than a diesel engine sounds a good idea for when the wires come down.
Hard seats and no buffet presumably.

According to earlier reports, they were ordered with only standard class and with a microbuffet (like the Azumas^▸ (Brand name for Class 80x trains on LNER)).

As to seats, these trains were ordered in March 2019 and the RSSB^▸ (Rail Safety and Standards Board) review of how to specify seat comfort came out finally in August. But the work was underway in March, and I'm sure Hitachi knew all about it - and they ought to have been involved in doing it. So we'll have to wait and see - or feel - ischial tuberosities at the ready.

[Fourbee]

I wondered what that logo was doing on the bottom of the poster which tells you how to hold a handrail. Thought I'd missed out on LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) changing hands without me noticing!

https://uk.firstgroupcareers.com/company/ectl/home/
(only place I could find the logo)

[paul7575]

Reports in Modern Railways a while back, (May 2019 edition), specifically stated that the 803 batteries were not there for traction.  So they?d not be able to recover themselves or divert off the wires. 

So I wonder what the actual capability will be?

Paul

[grahame]

Reports in Modern Railways a while back, (May 2019 edition), specifically stated that the 803 batteries were not there for traction.  So they'd not be able to recover themselves or divert off the wires. 

So I wonder what the actual capability will be?

Paul

The 801 are described as

Differing from the Class 800 units, which they were built alongside, the Class 801 units were designed as purely electric multiple units, but with one diesel engine fitted to a single coach of each unit for emergency use.

It sounds like the 803 won't have that emergency rescue capability unless the batteries are in addition to that single Diesel engine?

[paul7575]

Reports in Modern Railways a while back, (May 2019 edition), specifically stated that the 803 batteries were not there for traction.  So they'd not be able to recover themselves or divert off the wires. 

So I wonder what the actual capability will be?

Paul

The 801 are described as

Differing from the Class 800 units, which they were built alongside, the Class 801 units were designed as purely electric multiple units, but with one diesel engine fitted to a single coach of each unit for emergency use.

It sounds like the 803 won't have that emergency rescue capability unless the batteries are in addition to that single Diesel engine?

AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) from discussions elsewhere, and the quote in post 21 above, there?s no diesel at all on the 803 Grahame; the debate is really only about the capability/purpose of the battery.