Westbury westwards - significant numbers on the morning train

[whole diary]

[grahame]

As from the December '14 timetable change, the first train from Paddington (07:06?) via the Berks and Hants to beyond Taunton was diverted to Plymouth and Penzance, and the train from Paddington (07:30?) via Chippenham and Bristol beyond Taunton was diverted to Torquay and Paignton.

I was at Westbury this morning when the Penzance service called (due 08:26 / running 11 late) and I counted some 60 passengers waiting to join on the platform.   Of course, I wasn't in a role to ask them how far they were going, but it certainly does emphasise the requirement to head out west from Wiltshire at that time of day, and the importance of the Westbury stop in such services.  As the train came in from London, I got the impression it wasn't very busy - so the crowd joining probably makes a significant difference to the train's economics.  Not many people got off - but those getting off did include the people I was meeting, so I was busier greeting than observing.

[bobm]

I wonder how many of those 60 joining were travelling to stations to Newton Abbot and were therefore served by the pre December 14 train.

[Super Guard]

Certainly a fair few of those would be commuting to Taunton, but 60 is more than in the past.

[grahame]

I wonder how many of those 60 joining were travelling to stations to Newton Abbot and were therefore served by the pre December 14 train.

Can you tell from a picture?



I can be pretty close to certain that there was nobody joining that train at Westbury having come down from Swindon on the TransWilts - the option for Swindon to Plymouth passengers to travel this way in the early morning is not attractive, with a 90 minute wait at Westbury.

[bobm]

I can be pretty close to certain that there was nobody joining that train at Westbury having come down from Swindon on the TransWilts - the option for Swindon to Plymouth passengers to travel this way in the early morning is not attractive, with a 90 minute wait at Westbury.

Unless you have a lunchtime meeting in Truro - when that route is option 1, the second is to double back via Reading at additional cost or the third is to take the sleeper the night before. 

[grahame]

A reminder of the importance of Westbury as a hub ...



29th December 2015, at 16:16 - awaiting the Penzance train.  A veritable sea of passengers, many just arrived on the train from Portsmouth / Southampton / Salisbury

[TaplowGreen]

Would be interesting/more compelling to see a similar picture on a normal working day, rather than the first day back after Christmas? Was there a normal service on the 29th? Demand would almost certainly be distorted by the time of year.

[grahame]

Would be interesting/more compelling to see a similar picture on a normal working day, rather than the first day back after Christmas? Was there a normal service on the 29th? Demand would almost certainly be distorted by the time of year.

Look back up a few posts ... not the same train, but the Westbury to West flood again.

Loadings on trains on 29th were weird ... very quite in the morning, jammed with luggage in the afternoon on a train back up from Exeter that's usually quiet midweek.   Not only distorted loads, but distorted passenger metrics too.

[grahame]

And again - 16:27 yesterday (Saturday) afternoon.  Named train - "The Cornishman" so I guess that some of the people were headed beyond Exeter     ... not really a time of day (especially on a Saturday) that I would have expected to be particularly busy ... (and I do note that the Cornishman would have become a bus at Tiverton!)



I headed out west yesterday too ... but not from Westbury as the first train that was was a bit late for me.   An example of business not fully catered for.

[Oberon]

I would love to know whether GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) has a view on this state of affairs. Do they think this situation is tenable or do they think, as the rest of us surely do, that something must be done to alleviate this level of overcrowding?

[grahame]

I would love to know whether GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) has a view on this state of affairs. Do they think this situation is tenable or do they think, as the rest of us surely do, that something must be done to alleviate this level of overcrowding?

There is a cynical view that suggests that the overcrowding will be alleviated by removing the Westbury stops in London to Plymouth and Penzance trains.   Studies show that by removing a through service / adding a change, you loose between 37% (Brighton through train to Bristol study), 40% and 46% (commuter and general leisure studies) of your passenger flow between the stations concerned.   

These figures are born out in other ways too - if you talk to people arriving into Westbury off HST^▸ (High Speed Train) services who live in places like Trowbridge and Warminster,  Melksham and Bradforsd-on-Avon, many of them who have a car available had chosen to park at Westbury rather than use onward connecting local public transport ("By the time I wait for a train then wait for a bus ...."). 

[TaplowGreen]

Graham it may be interesting if you were to survey these or similar groups of passengers (if its within your remit so to do?)as to where they are travelling? I'm sure there are numerous other small/medium sized stations for which an argument can be made, and equally (if not more) numerous regularly desperately/dangerously overcrowded services which need relief with more capacity?

[JayMac]

And again - 16:27 yesterday (Saturday) afternoon.  Named train - "The Cornishman" so I guess that some of the people were headed beyond Exeter     ... not really a time of day (especially on a Saturday) that I would have expected to be particularly busy ... (and I do note that the Cornishman would have become a bus at Tiverton.

I headed out west yesterday too ... but not from Westbury as the first train that was was a bit late for me.   An example of business not fully catered for.

Buses yesterday were running from Exeter rather than Tiverton, to Newton Abbot.

I know, having been on a rather nice luxury coach in the opposite direction from Newton Abbot in the morning. I chose the stopping service via Teignmouth, Dawlish, Starcross, rather than the concurrent express option.

[Adelante_CCT]

There is a cynical view that suggests that the overcrowding will be alleviated by removing the Westbury stops in London to Plymouth and Penzance trains.   Studies show that by removing a through service / adding a change, you loose between 37% (Brighton through train to Bristol study), 40% and 46% (commuter and general leisure studies) of your passenger flow between the stations concerned.   

But would these figures apply if the sparse direct service westbound from Westbury was replaced with a regular hourly service with short connection times at Exeter?

Nothing to say it couldn't potentially be nearer to a 37% increase rather than a similar decrease.

[grahame]

But would these figures apply if the sparse direct service westbound from Westbury was replaced with a regular hourly service with short connection times at Exeter?

Good question, but hypothetical, I'm afraid; there's an hourly service suggested via the Westbury avoider. From Westbury westwards to Castle Cary you may see an hourly departure, but that would be made up of a mixture of Heart of Wessex stopping services carrying on via Yeovil and semifasts (I think that's the description) via Taunton.

Graham it may be interesting if you were to survey these or similar groups of passengers (if its within your remit so to do?)as to where they are travelling? I'm sure there are numerous other small/medium sized stations for which an argument can be made, and equally (if not more) numerous regularly desperately/dangerously overcrowded services which need relief with more capacity?

Hmmm ... the 'lead' on a survey on this should probably come from the rail expert in Wiltshire Council's sustainable transport team; potentially we could pull in some help from TransWilts and approval from GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway).  It would, I suspect, be impractical on platform ... I also suspect it would be very informative and useful in informing timetabling decisions for when the class 800 and 802 start running.

Should the Heart of Wessex and Semifast to Exeter trains be run alternate hours, work could be done to inform whether the semifasts should stop at Frome as well ... and I was slightly surprised to see that the semifasts miss out Tiverton Parkway and the expresses call there in the TravelWatch SouthWest presentation yesterday.