Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15

[whole diary]

[PhilWakely]

There already seems to be a more direct number (assuming it is still current) in situ at some locations...

e.g. https://goo.gl/maps/1hlOd

I've seen these signs on a number of bridges where the railway goes over the road, but have not seen any where the road goes over the railway.

I am intrigued about repair techniques as well. Here is the result of an incident that occurred about 20 years ago (not directly above the track admittedly). The 'temporary repair' as it was described then has been replaced several times since!
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.73778,-3.477733,3a,75y,6.41h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sdSRiWz_dXSDpow6QONHELw!2e0

[stuving]

I've seen these signs on a number of bridges where the railway goes over the road, but have not seen any where the road goes over the railway.

Here's a repeat of something I posted less than three weeks ago:

They should already have them, according to the the relevant document.

3.1 Network Rail is carrying out a programme to install identification plates at all bridges over the railway. These plates give contact details to enable a bridge strike to be promptly reported to Network Rail Operations Control.

Generally, two identification plates are installed on each bridge, in positions where the public should be able to read the instructions.

The principle that identification plates as shown in Appendix A may be erected by Network Rail on bridges over the railway not owned by Network Rail has been accepted. The agreement of the bridge owner to the location of the plates, the method of fixing, and arrangements for their installation and maintenance is to be obtained.

Identification plates should record the ownership of the bridge.

That was dated 2008, so I guess they will not have put them up everywhere yet.

[Super Guard]

Oh God, it takes the 999 operator several minutes to collect all your details & details of the event you're reporting. I also suspect they don't have direct contact to the correct signalling centre (why would they, they're not rail related & working out where each signalling centre is & what area it covers isn't there job) and only call a central NR^» (Network Rail - home page) centre....where they do have to locate the event & relay the message.

Not a hope in 10 minutes. Only way would be to put the right phone number on each bridge. But then it's open to pranksters.

Perhaps the 24 hour central NR emergency number: 03457 11 41 41 should get more awareness (or given a simplified 3 digit number most can remember).

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/1346.aspx

[stuving]

Perhaps the 24 hour central NR^» (Network Rail - home page) emergency number: 03457 11 41 41 should get more awareness (or given a simplified 3 digit number most can remember).

The reference document cited above (Response to a Bridge Strike over the Railway: A Protocol for Highway and Road Managers, Police and Bridge Owners / April 2008 / NR/GPG/CIV^▸ (International Convention for the transportation of Passengers)/007) shows the number 020 7928 2090 in the examples of bridge-mounted plates is.

That seems to be a Wessex emergency number; presumably plates elsewhere would have numbers for other regions' control centres. The text does not mention the phone number and how it is chosen. I imagine that, when these plates were first used, a local number would have been important. Given almost all calls will now be from mobiles, even the concept of a local number is irrelevant.

Given the changes in numbering for free and public service calls, especially from mobiles, a new national number would seem quite sensible - even if it is routed to a local centre. At first sight it seems hard to justify the cost of changing all the plates -  but assuming every bridge is inspected quite often, that may not be the case.

[ChrisB]

From a mobile, it couldn't tell where the 'local' number was.

[stuving]

From a mobile, it couldn't tell where the 'local' number was.

What "it"? The phone system, for routing? Of course it does.

All cell phone systems have to track every phone from cell to cell to call it, and usually have extra information about where it is within a cell. Currently none of this is handed over to outsiders except with an emergency call (under the E112 directive). There was a plan to make mobile networks add equipment to give better accuracy than that, but it seems to have been given up.

Later this year is (in theory) the launch of eCall. That will put a little box on every new car, that has Satellite positioning, which will make an automatic emergency call if it detects an accident (or if you press a button). That call arrives at the PSAP (public-safety answering point) with satnav-quality positioning accompanying it.

[ChrisB]

Given the changes in numbering for free and public service calls, especially from mobiles, a new national number would seem quite sensible - even if it is routed to a local centre.

This national number would not be able to determine the place of the mobile call, which is what I was referring to.

[LiskeardRich]

From a mobile, it couldn't tell where the 'local' number was.

Yes it could, the AA can track you to within 50m from where your mobile is when you call them. Last time I broke down I didn't know where I was, and told he AA that. The woman on the phone was able to tell me the location my phone was transmitting from which was in fact about 10 metres away from where I actaully was.

The bigger problem is if called from an office, as many offices use remote phone lines routed through servers that could be anywhere in the country. My office in cornwall half our outgoing lines have 0116 codes the other half have 01923 which is Watford. An ambulance was required about 18 months ago and 999 connected to Hertfordshire ambulance service.

[stuving]

From a mobile, it couldn't tell where the 'local' number was.

Yes it could, the AA can track you to within 50m from where your mobile is when you call them. Last time I broke down I didn't know where I was, and told he AA that. The woman on the phone was able to tell me the location my phone was transmitting from which was in fact about 10 metres away from where I actaully was.

Interesting. That appears to be illegal, unless you gave your permission for it. If your phone did the locating (via its GPS), you may perhaps have done that by enabling that feature.  But while the AA like to call themselves the fourth emergancy service, legally they are not one.

While some new legislation may have sneaked through, I think this is still covered by The Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations 2003 (SI 2003 No. 2426). The relevant sections are:

Restrictions on the processing of location data

14.^(1) This regulation shall not apply to the processing of traffic data.

(2) Location data relating to a user or subscriber of a public electronic communications network or a public electronic communications service may only be processed^
(a)where that user or subscriber cannot be identified from such data; or
(b)where necessary for the provision of a value added service, with the consent of that user or subscriber.

(3) Prior to obtaining the consent of the user or subscriber under paragraph (2)(b), the public communications provider in question must provide the following information to the user or subscriber to whom the data relate^
(a)the types of location data that will be processed;
(b)the purposes and duration of the processing of those data; and
(c)whether the data will be transmitted to a third party for the purpose of providing the value added service.

(4) A user or subscriber who has given his consent to the processing of data under paragraph (2)(b) shall^
(a)be able to withdraw such consent at any time, and
(b)in respect of each connection to the public electronic communications network in question or each transmission of a communication, be given the opportunity to withdraw such consent, using a simple means and free of charge.

(5) Processing of location data in accordance with this regulation shall^
(a)only be carried out by^
(i)the public communications provider in question;
(ii)the third party providing the value added service in question; or
(iii)a person acting under the authority of a person falling within (i) or (ii); and
(b)where the processing is carried out for the purposes of the provision of a value added service, be restricted to what is necessary for those purposes.

Emergency calls

16.^(1) For the purposes of this regulation, ^emergency calls^ means calls to either the national emergency call number 999 or the single European emergency call number 112.

(2) In order to facilitate responses to emergency calls^
(a)all such calls shall be excluded from the requirements of regulation 10;
(b)no person shall be entitled to prevent the presentation on the connected line of the identity of the calling line; and
(c)the restriction on the processing of location data under regulation 14(2) shall be disregarded.

There are a number of amendments made in The Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) (Amendment) Regulations 2011 (SI 2011 No. 1208). However, the only relevant one I can see is to the definition of "location data" in section 2, adding the italicised words in:

^location data^ means any data processed in an electronic communications network or by an electronic communications service indicating the geographical position of the terminal equipment of a user of a public electronic communications service, including data relating to^
(f)the latitude, longitude or altitude of the terminal equipment;
(g)the direction of travel of the user; or
(h)the time the location information was recorded;

It should be easy to find information about this, and how to opt in and out, from your mobile provider - like on their website - shouldn't it? Apparently not.

[ChrisB]

Yes, it's done via the gps, and it needs a real person to look at the data on a map.

Software that re-routes calls to a central number to the 'right' signalling centre can't do this.