Switzerland - railways and incidents (merged posts)

[whole diary]

[johnneyw]

Ah, might be off up there soon. Recommended?

[SandTEngineer]

Ah, might be off up there soon. Recommended?

Well it was GALA weekend and I travelled both ways almost in the pitch black (no train lighting).  It was a fireworks special and apparently the first attempt in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) to have fireworks let off at various sites along the line.  Seems a nice friendly line though 

...whoops; thread drift.  Moderators watching....

[Adelante_CCT]

...whoops; thread drift.  Moderators watching....

On certain other forums you would be shot down for doing such a thing.

Luckily we have very nice moderators who don't complain and quietly get on with any moving or merging that is required. 

[Bmblbzzz]

Would it be correct to assume from the wide opening windows that the services are also slower than typical in UK^▸ (United Kingdom)? (This refers to Switzerland not Llanfair!)

[John R]

One of the ones we travelled quite a bit on (the Bernese Oberland Railway) is privately owned. One of the things that struck me was the consistency across the network, no matter who the operator.  As an example, the information screens onboard. Contrast that with the UK where the operators seem to take pride in doing things differently (font on stations signs, yellow line to denote 1st class etc)

As for speed, I'd judge the BOR reaches speeds of up to 100kph, so certainly not high speed, but neither slow enough to make throwing your child out of the window a game for all the family to play. 

[Trowres]

Perfectly clear TV displays (consistent across operators) giving next stop and destination information, accompanied by clear bilingual announcements.

Shouldn't it be trilingual in Switzerland? (Or even quadrilingual if you include Romansch.)

In the Berner Oberland Bahn area, bilingual announcements were in German and English (although Wikipedia suggests that Portugese is the second most common native language after German in the locality)

Wilderswil Station (first stop outside Interlaken) had a ticket office signposted above the door simply "Rail Travel Office".

[Trowres]

To illustrate some of John R's points, here (attached) is a picture of Wilderswil, with passengers disembarking from a train on the Schynige Platte Bahn and crossing the tracks of the BOB line, on which (on the day shown) there were half-hourly trains each way of 12 or 13 coaches.

The line on the left is actually set into the (rather low) platform. It is the passing loop for Wilderswil but isn't used as a crossing point in the regular timetable.

[broadgage]

I hope that proper medical treatment is available for any UK^▸ (United Kingdom) health and safety managers who suffer fits, heart attacks, or mental distress as a result of viewing these arrangements.
I wonder if any such visitors from the UK have ever called the local police to report the "mass trespass" onto the tracks ! It would be a major incident in the UK, probably requiring closure of the line for some hours.

[John R]

Thanks Trowres. That was indeed one of the locations I had in mind. One station further south is where the trains split, with the rather curious split platform I described, as shown in the photo. The speed of dividing/joining was very impressive.

[RailCornwall]

Ahh the delightful Zweilutschinen .... Which is so much in shadow that you can get third degree frostbite in winter waiting if your scheduling goes arwy.

(Slight exaggeration)

[Trowres]

Grass is always greener... 

However, the Swiss Railways are State owned. Maybe we could try their model in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom). 

I cannot pretend to understand the complexities of the Swiss railway structure - some of the "private" railways such as BOB are at least part-owned by the cantons. However, the spread of running railways by complex contracts can be identified in the following document:-
http://fsr.eui.eu/Documents/ResearchReport/Transport/Incentive-basedGovernanceSwissRailways.pdf

[Trowres]

...
I'm not sure that culturally the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) can ever emulate the transport standards of Switzerland only envy it. 
...

Trainer, I wish that you had expanded on this opinion. What do you think are the cultural problems? (others please chip in!!!)

[trainer]

...
I'm not sure that culturally the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) can ever emulate the transport standards of Switzerland only envy it. 
...

Trainer, I wish that you had expanded on this opinion. What do you think are the cultural problems? (others please chip in!!!)

I was referring to the whole idea that we should share responsibility, costs and the transport itself and not take the more individualistic approach so many of my friends have where the car is king.  In Switzerland there is (to my limited knowledge) no stigma to using public transport even when access to a car is available.  It is a strange thing that such a capitalist country keen on making money has such a socialist attitude towards transport.

Those who visit Switzerland - even non-train enthusiasts - often remark on the wonderful system, but as soon as you mention the word 'tax' in explaining why it's so good there is often a slight splutter as we don't trust our politicians with 'our' money, so the thought of handing more over for trains and buses has been (certainly since 1979) felt undesirable. In turn the decline in the ease of using public transport in the UK (most specifically buses connecting with trains) is seen as a reason not to proceed with more subsidy for it.

I think to pick out this particular aspect of British life and how we approach it fails to address the broader political differences between the us and some other countries which often arise out of cultural differences in attitudes.  I will find it difficult to succinctly express those differences without sounding like some abhorrent nationalist - subtlety is essential and can be lengthy.  Suffice it to say, some countries seem more socially minded than others (perhaps the Scandinavian countries stand out in this respect) and that is reflected in their politics. I hope these few comments will be enough to elucidate my initial comment and provoke others to 'chip in' - and disagree.

(I did say I wasn't sure this was solely a transport subject! )

[Trowres]

Thanks, Trainer. You mention individualism and a reluctance to embrace collective funding (tax). But if I interpret correctly, you see these as symptoms of an ingrained national trait that affects a much wider range of issues.

This proposition raises interesting questions on the possible causes of such differences, and how stable these traits are. The population isn't homogeneous. If the "national trait" is due to some feedback mechanism, reinforcing the view of a small majority, there's the possibility of a rapid switch to a new situation given a sufficient nudge.

[ChrisB]

Hmm. NHS. Something the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) holds dear (too dear?) to its heart over and and above funding for absolutely anything else. The UK *would* in general, according to many polls, be quite happy to pay more tax for its funding. Probably to the detriment of anything else unfortunately