Seven Year Old Girl Crushed On Overcrowded Train

[whole diary]

[smokey]

Well thank you Chris, I'll take that as an invite to dine at your expense to night.

Nice Chinese for me and the family, I'll just tell 'em to send you the bill.

Cheers to your good health!!!!

[John R]

We're really taking the subject heading seriously in this thread aren't we?

[smokey]

We're really taking the subject heading seriously in this thread aren't we?

Whoops have derailed a bit, better bring it back on track, Overcrowded trains are not fun, but if the next ones twenty minutes later or more, then most folk will squeeze themselves in.

There is a H & Safety issue here, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) should never have reduced train size from 3 to 2 cars, indeed it should have been increased from 3 to 4 cars.

But the real culpit here are the H & S boys, there is no spare stock, why because all the old slam door stock had to be fitted with SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) by 2003 I think, (Vacman will know) H & S orders.

Being expensive to fit, all the old stock went for scrap.

[dog box]

God they've got to sort out the Cardiff-Pompey services!

I wish they would Vacman.

Theres overcrowding, which you will find on any rail companie's services from time to time, and theres seriously and at times dangerous overcrowding thats a daily occurance on this line not just at peak times, on weekends too which is sometimes even worse with passengers often left behind at stations. Not too inconvenient if there is another service along in half an hour or so but this line now mainly operates every hour since the removal of most of the Westbury-Southampton services last December.

I know there are issues that many of you could highlight that need fixing on other parts of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) network but this one really does need fixing and quick as its been more than proved over the past year that three carriages of passengers doesn't go very well into two.

Now just to provide a bit of balance to this post so it doesn't look like having another go at FGW. Wessex trains had their overcrowding problems as well and this is nothing new on this line. The difference between the Wessex franchise and the current FGW franchise is that they were in a position to respond to this problem by making the 158s operating on this line three carriages because the terms of the Wessex franchise weren't as harsh as FGW's in terms of having to make premium payments to the government.

Where I would be critical of FGW was that they went further then the recommendation of retaining three diagramed 3 car 158s and said only one was required, (see the following post: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1527.0) thats where they got it wrong and in an indirect way have admitted so in saying that they took too much stock off service in Dec 06. Now they are eagerly awaiting the release of 150/1s from the West Midlands franchise to be able to increase the 'West fleet' once again to something near what it needs to be. Of course some of these 150s will be needed to give the Devon Metro its everyday trains back again unless of course you are all happy with the 142s that you now have? 

UMMMMM I think we'll get rid of the 142's thanks! hopefully we will get some of the 3 car 150's from LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) which will sort a few things out!

Prehaps the DAFT should decree NOW that London Midland MUST use the 180s untill there new stuff is built ,and cascade the 3 car 150s to FGW NOW

[Timmer]

Prehaps the DAFT should decree NOW that London Midland MUST use the 180s untill there new stuff is built ,and cascade the 3 car 150s to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) NOW

Now theres an idea! That would really help things out at the moment. I think its crazy that the 180s are heading towards the sidings whilst passengers are crammed into two car trains. Problem is this is too much like common sense for it to happen but we live in hope! Still prefer to see the 180s on the Cardiff-Portsmouth line though despite their costs I think you would encourage more to travel on this line if they knew they would actually get a seat on the train.

[Chris from Nailsea]

We're really taking the subject heading seriously in this thread aren't we?

Whoops have derailed a bit, better bring it back on track, Overcrowded trains are not fun, but if the next ones twenty minutes later or more, then most folk will squeeze themselves in.

There is a H & Safety issue here, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) should never have reduced train size from 3 to 2 cars, indeed it should have been increased from 3 to 4 cars.

Yes, sorry, John: point taken! 

Smokey is quite right: why were previous three car services reduced to two cars, when they were already crowded when they were three cars?  I've asked Insider (http://indefenceoffirstgreatwestern.blogspot.com/2008/01/up-close-and-personal.html) and sent in a comment card to FGW about the 1753 Bristol Temple Meads to Nailsea, for example, making exactly this point.  Response - nothing: it seems to me FGW don't have an official answer, but they are too embarrassed to admit it publicly - they just got it plain wrong with their franchise bid.

I hope Laura Booth gets over her clearly traumatic experience and is able to take up FGW on their offer of a day out sometime: trains aren't bad, but sometimes it's the people who 'manage' them who are.

[Lee]

Smokey is quite right: why were previous three car services reduced to two cars, when they were already crowded when they were three cars?  I've asked Insider (http://indefenceoffirstgreatwestern.blogspot.com/2008/01/up-close-and-personal.html) and sent in a comment card to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) about the 1753 Bristol Temple Meads to Nailsea, for example, making exactly this point.  Response - nothing: it seems to me FGW don't have an official answer, but they are too embarrassed to admit it publicly - they just got it plain wrong with their franchise bid.

Insider may not have answered you because he had already answered the question. See link below.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1527.msg9700#msg9700

[Chris from Nailsea]

Lee, I'm sorry if I'm being a bit thick, but I've trawled through that link you gave and I can't find Insider's answer to that question: which bit of it do you mean?  Sorry! 

[Jim]

All Cardiff-Pompey, during daytime, and peaks, Saturdays and Sundays are FULL AND STANDING.

[John R]

The 1753 heading down to Weston is indeed busy. I've estimated it averages 200 on a service with 150 seats. But we can all get on, and after Nailsea it's fine. I think those on the Bath and Westbury line would welcome a service which has much space as it has. The gripes have been when they leave people behind on the platform (or the crush results in children fainting). Thankfully we only get that sort of crush in North Somerset if the service goes pear-shaped, not as a daily occurrence. 

[Chris from Nailsea]

The 1753 heading down to Weston is indeed busy. I've estimated it averages 200 on a service with 150 seats.

Thanks, John: I'd put it slightly higher, at up to 250 (now we're out of the Christmas / New Year lull) for a service with 147 seats (two car 150).  But, as you say, we can all get on (just about, and provided we don't have bikes, for example), and of course after Nailsea it's fine.

The gripes have been when they leave people behind on the platform (or the crush results in children fainting). Thankfully we only get that sort of crush in North Somerset if the service goes pear-shaped, not as a daily occurrence. 

Agreed, John, but some of this overcrowding on the 1753 seems to be due to the rather weird timetabling: services departing from Bristol Temple Meads to Nailsea are as follows:
1718 - then, just seven minutes later,
1725 - then 28 minutes until
1753 - then 29 minutes until
1822 - then, just three minutes later,
1825

As I understand it, the Bath - Westbury line has much more regular intervals between trains - and I mean more regular, not more frequent??

[Lee]

Lee, I'm sorry if I'm being a bit thick, but I've trawled through that link you gave and I can't find Insider's answer to that question: which bit of it do you mean?  Sorry! 

The most relevant link from Insider's blog is this one.
http://indefenceoffirstgreatwestern.blogspot.com/2007/11/answering-some-questions.html

I would advise reading all of it, including the comments section.

[devon_metro]

The 1753 heading down to Weston is indeed busy. I've estimated it averages 200 on a service with 150 seats.

Thanks, John: I'd put it slightly higher, at up to 250 (now we're out of the Christmas / New Year lull) for a service with 147 seats (two car 150).  But, as you say, we can all get on (just about, and provided we don't have bikes, for example), and of course after Nailsea it's fine.

The gripes have been when they leave people behind on the platform (or the crush results in children fainting). Thankfully we only get that sort of crush in North Somerset if the service goes pear-shaped, not as a daily occurrence. 

Agreed, John, but some of this overcrowding on the 1753 seems to be due to the rather weird timetabling: services departing from Bristol Temple Meads to Nailsea are as follows:
1718 - then, just seven minutes later,
1725 - then 28 minutes until
1753 - then 29 minutes until
1822 - then, just three minutes later,
1825

As I understand it, the Bath - Westbury line has much more regular intervals between trains - and I mean more regular, not more frequent??

Does the 1530 from London get extended to Weston, as that would be ideal. 1715 Bristol - Weston then the 1745 would be the 1600 which goes to Taunton (?)

[Chris from Nailsea]

Does the 1530 from London get extended to Weston, as that would be ideal. 1715 Bristol - Weston then the 1745 would be the 1600 which goes to Taunton (?)

Sorry, d_m, but I'm struggling a bit with this: are you possibly referring to the pre-December 2007 timetable?

In those 'good old days', the 1746 BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) to Taunton via Nailsea was indeed the Paddington HST^▸ (High Speed Train) - generally reliable, and plenty of room for us commuters as most of the remaining Paddington passengers got off at Bristol!

However, the new timetable gives us a 1753 which originates at Cardiff: unfortunately, rather prone to problems with signalling at Cardiff and soggy conditions in the Severn Tunnel area generally causing more delays / cancellations.

From what I've seen, a lot of the Paddington services that used to extend beyond Bristol (to Weston or Taunton, for example) now terminate at Bristol, to form services starting from Bristol to Paddington.  A lot of the previous continuity seems to have disappeared.

On the other hand, I may have completely misunderstood your point - in which case, sorry!   

[Jim]

Agreed, John, but some of this overcrowding on the 1753 seems to be due to the rather weird timetabling: services departing from Bristol Temple Meads to Nailsea are as follows:
1718 - then, just seven minutes later,
1725 - then 28 minutes until
1753 - then 29 minutes until
1822 - then, just three minutes later,
1825

As I understand it, the Bath - Westbury line has much more regular intervals between trains - and I mean more regular, not more frequent??

Bath-Trowbridge:
17.07 - 2car - Weymouth
17.25 - 3car - Westbury
17.36 - 4car - Pompey
18.07 - 2car - Weymouth
18.25 - ?car - Westbury
18.36 - 2car - Pompey*

*18.36 is normally VERY BUSY

So in total, between 5 and 7 we have 15 coaches doing the trip, however in the Nailsea list, there is 2 HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s with (5coaches of SC) and the rest are 2car units?