Bristol's Temple Gate layout change planned in £21m revamp

[whole diary]

[DaveHarries]

Apologies for being sceptical but, going by the final map, this has all the hallmarks of a Bristol City Council scheme IMO^▸ (in my opinion). I will wait and see the final results before I pass final judgement though.

Dave

[TonyK]

The Grosvenor is long overdue a serious uplift at the very least.

Before its incarnation as a hostel for homeless folks in the Naughties, I can recall that it still functioned as a hotel in the late 80s / early 90s. The council housed homeless families on the two top floors, and my job at the time including calling on them, often out of hours. It wasn't particularly nice - the hallway inside the front door seemed to go downhill, there was at one point one single functioning bathroom on a floor with three dozen rooms, and interviews were sometimes carried out to the sound of lorries scraping along the flyover. There was a bar, but I never felt tempted to take a drink there. One night, I was summoned there to see a new entrant, and was surprised to find two extremely large men in suits with a bulge below one armpit barring my way. One asked me, politely, what I was doing there. Normally, I would have told him that was my business, not his, but he was of a size and build that demanded an explanation. He nodded, then spoke to his cufflink. "Go to the lift, go to the fourth floor, nowhere else, my colleague will meet you there." He was right - a suited gorilla escorted me from lift to room, and back again. On the way out, I asked one of the men why the unusual concierge arrangement. Turned out that (then Sir) Norman Tebbit was dining there as a guest of some local businessmen. As he was just finishing his coffee and was about to leave, they decided they could tell me without having to kill me. I asked the obvious question: "Why here?" and was told "We don't know either."

[RichardB]

I'm sure the George and Railway was closed when I moved to Bristol in 1977. So about time, although given Bristol's track record, this announcement probably means that things like Engine Shed 2 are about to go out of fashion.

Very late to this, but I worked at Bath Spa station from early 87 to the beginning of 89 and it was open throughout this period.  I popped in for a pint from time to time (quite a decent bar and the beer was good, as I remember.)

[Red Squirrel]

The new Temple Gate road layout is now in operation, according to Bristol City Council (see here: https://news.bristol.gov.uk/news/new-temple-gate-road-layout-launches-as-works-enter-final-phase). The junctions are fully signalised, and should look like this:

[Phantom]

One day they may actually finish this project !
It's amazed me that for 18+ months now, little sections have been worked on then for some reason rather than finish it they move onto another area, surely it would have been easier to work on a section, complete it and move on?

[Noggin]

One day they may actually finish this project !
It's amazed me that for 18+ months now, little sections have been worked on then for some reason rather than finish it they move onto another area, surely it would have been easier to work on a section, complete it and move on?

It goes to show just how much space roundabouts take up vs conventional junctions. I'll be interested to see how well it copes with rush hour - I guess that it will take a little while for everyone to get used to it and for the traffic light phasing to be optimised.

I walk through it every day and I get the impression that actually it has been pretty carefully phased and the work seems to have been carried out to a high quality. AIUI^▸ (as I understand it), what's made it significantly more complicated is the installation of the district heating pipes and the re-routing of services, particularly when they discovered some previously unknown vaults and had to have a bunch of expensive pipework rebuilt.

[Red Squirrel]

Apologies to anyone who mistook my earlier post to mean that the roadworks are complete - there are still a lot of cones, lane closures and temporary signals. The attached photo was taken along the new alignment of Redcliffe Way (or is this bit Temple Gate?), and gives an indication of the current state of play. Hard to get decent photos as the area is still a complete mess. Brunel's Temple Meads facade is in the centre of the image.

[metalrail]

All we need now is the old 'temporary' flyover to be brought back into service to access Redcliffe Way from Temple Way again! 

[Red Squirrel]

All we need now is the old 'temporary' flyover to be brought back into service to access Redcliffe Way from Temple Way again! 

Curiously, it looks like the name 'Redcliffe Way' will actually survive this current scheme (personally I would like to see the old name - Pile Street - restored), although it is now very much a local road and no longer part of the long-defunct Inner Circuit Road. There is no conceivable justification for channelling traffic from Temple Way in this direction though - where would it be heading?

[metalrail]

I always used that route before to get to Whapping Wharf / Spike Island, and sometimes onto Bedminster

[Red Squirrel]

I always used that route before to get to Whapping Wharf / Spike Island, and sometimes onto Bedminster

Redcliffe Way and Redcliff Hill (one with a terminal 'e', one without - don't ask me why!) are the fossilised remains of a road network that was (thankfully!) never completed. Redcliff Hill was an eclectic ancient thoroughfare which was destroyed to create a dual-carriageway link between the esrtwhile Inner Circuit Road and an elevated motorway through Bedminster (the site of which is now, finally, to be redeveloped for housing); Redcliffe Way and its surrounding wastelands of car parking and SLOAP (space left over after planning) was never a brilliant setting for St Mary Redcliffe church (described by Elizabeth I on MediaevalTripAdviser as 'The fairest, goodliest and most famous parish church in England') and is due to be redeveloped:

Redcliffe Way (Policies Map site KS10) will be suitable for a residential led development, supported by a mix of uses including offices, community infrastructure, leisure uses and culture / tourism uses, which may include hotel uses. An element of retail will be acceptable subject to consideration of its impact on other designated shopping areas. The development will be expected to provide:
Improved pedestrian and cycle routes between Temple Meads and Queen Square and between Redcliffe and Bedminster;
Residential development to encourage a stable, mixed residential population, including family housing and affordable housing;
A significantly improved setting for St. Mary Redcliffe church, improved links between north and south Redcliffe through the removal of the existing roundabout and the realignment of roads, and improved links between south and west Redcliffe through the redevelopment of Redcliff Hill;
An alignment for the proposed Bristol MetroBus route;
The reuse and sensitive restoration of the Grade II listed Thomas Chatterton’s house and school;
Enhancements to the quality and accessibility of the network of green spaces in the area;
High architectural and environmental design standards to contribute to the placemaking objectives for the area and the sustainability of the area;
A reduction in the impact of traffic on the area.

Source: Bristol Central Area Plan

Note that this plan is currently being revised - it's 4 years old, and some elements are already in place.

Through traffic, including relatively local journeys to Spike Island and Wapping Wharf, are routed via Bath Bridge roundabout and along the New Cut.

[Bmblbzzz]

Redcliffe Way's "wastelands of car parking and SLOAP" are also home to quite a few people in the flats there. And I note that both Way and Hill are to remain dual carriageways, which is kind of disappointing.

[Red Squirrel]

Redcliffe Way's "wastelands of car parking and SLOAP" are also home to quite a few people in the flats there.

I'm referring to the area between Portwall Lane and Redcliffe Way, which fit my description. That is not to say that there is no scope for improving the area between Redcliffe Way and Redcliff Mead Lane..!

And I note that both Way and Hill are to remain dual carriageways, which is kind of disappointing.

You may be right, and if so it is disappointing, but I've not seen it specifically stated anywhere - have you? Since my previous post, I've found the updated local plan - which retains the same policies with regard to the Hill and the Way

[Bmblbzzz]

I've seen the new kerbs they've installed for the central reservation!

As for the area between Redcliffe Way and Portwall Lane, yes it's kind of empty – sometimes it's good to have a bit of open area in a city but it could be more attractive.

[Red Squirrel]

I've seen the new kerbs they've installed for the central reservation!

I wouldn't extrapolate what they've done at the junction with Temple Gate to the rest of Redcliffe Way and Redcliff Hill - it is clear that the old motor-car dominated road layout is going to be replaced by something more friendly to other types of user. It may technically still be a dual carriageway, but without doubt it'll be narrower, slower, and one of the lanes will be a bus lane.

As for the area between Redcliffe Way and Portwall Lane, yes it's kind of empty – sometimes it's good to have a bit of open area in a city but it could be more attractive.

Cities need spaces, but they need to be well-designed. There is an aspiration to have some sort of public square in front of St Mary's, which has the potential to be exactly the kind of space that the current one isn't!