Database issues - occurring occasionally - merged topic for 2015 and 2016

[whole diary]

[grahame]

We've had problems in the last few hours with the databases that contain the forum data - I am currently investigating and this is both a test post and an alert to our members.

[grahame]

We've had problems in the last few hours with the databases that contain the forum data - I am currently investigating and this is both a test post and an alert to our members.

OK - that posted correctly.

As things stand at the moment, I have restored databases to the state they were in at around 00:30 this morning and I am doing further investigation.

Overnight posts and personal messages may NOT have been restored - please resubmit.   And as I'm still investigating what happened, please keep copies of what you post locally / say in case we have further problems today.    I will be clearer later!

[grahame]

Detailed investigation underway but I also have to get to my paid / day job - so further report may not be for a while.   Please keep posting / sorry about any data loss from 00:30 to around 07:15

[BerkshireBugsy]

Many thanks for your hard work behind the scenes bringing the coffee shop back on line.

[grahame]

OK ... I'm still checking logs to see if I can work out how the database went wrong in the early hours - probability is that it was a rare "race" type condition; I've seen it once or twice before, and I suspect a combination of rather old forum software and more modern databases and programming language versions won't have been tested together, so we use these versions at our peril. Other forums such as Wnxx have gone to the extent of archiving their old forum and starting a new one due to upgrade issues. As a forum that was formed for the specific purpose of providing customer information for a specific franchise / period, scant attention was given here to longevity of what I had expected to be a limited life project, and there are time such as this morning (and such as issues with search and some others I'm aware of) where it's showing its age.  I am now minded to think - "mission creep" - that the forum's likely to be required even beyond future franchise changes, and options should be explored; unlikely to be small tasks, and interesting as to how we're going to go about them - we have huge moderator, admin and member support team, but we're running on spare capacity on a machine that I happen to have that's got space, and with zero income.

The forum ... looks like the problem is fixed, and we are restored to the backup taken 20 minutes before it occurred.  As the problem wasn't noticed during the night, posts and personal messages (and poll votes and "new" flags) updated during this time will have been lost.    Our usual target for rollback is to loose no more than 60 minutes of data, but in this case we overshot.

[tomL]

Happy to lend an extra pair of eyes or hands if need be. Not very experienced with php but happy to (try and) help out as and when. 

[grahame]

Happy to lend an extra pair of eyes or hands if need be. Not very experienced with php but happy to (try and) help out as and when. 

We have a handful of active "techie/programmer" members, and it may be worth at some point getting our heads together to look at Network Rail data (improving feeds through this site, for example) and also looking at what we can do to develop and more into the future. 

For the immediate "oh sh*t there's a problem" stuff, it's probaby easier for me to be doing it as some of the changes that I've made to the source aren't well documented and I would need to spend longer explaining what needed to be done rather than doing it.

A nice import of members and messages (and polls?) into a new forum - with personal messages and the old forum available for a month or two - might be a way to go. But don't expect it soon from me.

I have a note of the following active members who are a bit / lot techie ... and I expect there are more. Please raise a hand if you're one.  We may well have a code bash when the days get longer? 

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?action=profile;u=117911
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?action=profile;u=94156
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?action=profile;u=348
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?action=profile;u=1

[BerkshireBugsy]

GraHam, looking at the profiles I think you have it covered but if you need any more help I have experience in coding and database experience

Dave

[johoare]

I also work in IT with a techie background...

[Richard Fairhurst]

*raises hand*

Stuff to do with maps is my speciality (I do a lot in the OpenStreetMap project), and generally Ruby and Postgres are my weapons of choice.

[grahame]

I much appreciate the waving of those hand in the air - thank you;  as we look forward (and with questions of ageing software and providing what people want in the future) I'm very likely to come back to you, and I've noted this thread.  Other people - please add your names; it may look like there's a lot of expertise around here, and indeed there is - but it's a question of having people 1. ready, 2. willing and 3. able and that combination's needs to be AND not OR.  So a big pool quickly can turn to just a handful!

This thread, grown from the need to restore backups yesterday, wasn't preplanned at this time.  In fact I personally fall at the first hurdle - "ready" - if we were looking to move ahead at the moment.   Far too much to do, far too little time; plans are for that to improve at / after the TransWilts AGM^▸ (Annual General Meeting) - obviously it's up to members and directors how that goes. I need to find time for looking after my own [income generating] work / business rather than just running it, and there are so many people who will come out and help on the day, including some really skilled and knowledgable people, several of whom are newly retired / moving from full time work, and can be far more committed and reliable than I can.

[GBM]

Is there a case for a subscription forum? Discuss. 
Actually, the pro's and con's are obvious, and would take up a whole subsection with very heated debate no doubt.
As an occasional user, I find the debates fascinating and very informative.
It's run by volunteers on a shoestring.
Would funding help with an improved server and software and programming. 
Funding would then need a subscription secretary (voluntary or paid?)
I would be happy to contribute (funding-wise) just for the pleasure and information herein.
The purpose of a forum is to provide a debating platform which should be free for all.
Recently retired, I know nothing about programming (et al), sorry; not sure how I could be of any assistance.
Thank you to grahame, the mods and posters.

[BerkshireBugsy]

Is there a case for a subscription forum? Discuss. 
Actually, the pro's and con's are obvious, and would take up a whole subsection with very heated debate no doubt.
As an occasional user, I find the debates fascinating and very informative.
It's run by volunteers on a shoestring.
Would funding help with an improved server and software and programming. 
Funding would then need a subscription secretary (voluntary or paid?)
I would be happy to contribute (funding-wise) just for the pleasure and information herein.
The purpose of a forum is to provide a debating platform which should be free for all.
Recently retired, I know nothing about programming (et al), sorry; not sure how I could be of any assistance.
Thank you to grahame, the mods and posters.

I personally do not have a problem paying a modest annual subscription BUT I'm not sure how well that would work generally (maybe we need a separate thread for this). My reason for saying this is that (a) it introduces a layer of administration as mentioned by GBM and (b) I think it may deter casual posters. I wouldn't be surprised , for example, if 20% of the membership are responsible for 80% of the posts.

However before we go down the subs/non subs route I think I would be good to have feedback from Graham and the mods for their view on how they think the forum environment could be improved.

Let's be honest, it's a lot more reliable that the subject matter it is set up to discuss

I also appreciate the excellent work that the team do - free of charge - to keep this going. Thanks team

[Red Squirrel]

I'm happy to lob in my two penn'orth as a PHP/MySQL/Wordpress developer...

[bobm]

The problem with charging a subscription is not only does it add to the administration tasks it also introduces new responsibilities.

Thankfully failures here are rare but if they were to occur with subscriptions in place we'd then be dealing with extending memberships or offering refunds.

A couple of forums I suscribe to ask for donations. That's a subtle difference - you give with no expectation of getting anything back.

However both methods do change what we have here and unless the running costs become prohibitive I am not sure they are roads we want to go down.