Quiet Carriage / Coach: restrictions and issues - ongoing discussion, merged topic

[whole diary]

[Chris from Nailsea]

Better enforcement would help a lot.

First Great Western - are you listening?

_{Sorry for shouting. CfN.} 

[pbc2520]

Given some of the comments, it sounds like it would be better to have two quiet carriages and two silent carriages!  (Perhaps FGW^▸ (First Great Western) could redecorate the silent carriages in a suitable style.)

I'm sure I don't need to remind you that if you deliberately set out to block mobile phone signals, you're breaking the law, whether using an active or passive mechanism.  So you need to take a much more ingenious approach, like building your railway underground... those extra billions of pounds will be worth it after all!

[JayMac]

I'm sure I don't need to remind you that if you deliberately set out to block mobile phone signals, you're breaking the law, whether using an active or passive mechanism.  So you need to take a much more ingenious approach, like building your railway underground... those extra billions of pounds will be worth it after all!

Ahh, but it seems likely that one of the worlds largest underground networks will shortly have mobile phone coverage:

http://www.t3.com/news/huawei-to-provide-london-underground-mobile-coverage

[old original]

Given some of the comments, it sounds like it would be better to have two quiet carriages and two silent carriages!  (Perhaps FGW^▸ (First Great Western) could redecorate the silent carriages in a suitable style.)

you forgot the "child free" coach .... Most peoples phone calls I can cope with, but children.......

[Richard Fairhurst]

One simple thing I'd love to see FGW^▸ (First Great Western) do is paint "quiet coach" on the outside of the carriage - i.e. on the carriage door. SWT^▸ (South West Trains) do it and it seems to make a difference. Much of the time on the Cotswold Line people don't seem to realise they're entering the coach - especially kids from Evesham to Worcester. There shouldn't be any significant boarding-time penalty as the one entrance to carriage A is next to carriage B...

[XPT]

Ahh, but it seems likely that one of the worlds largest underground networks will shortly have mobile phone coverage:

http://www.t3.com/news/huawei-to-provide-london-underground-mobile-coverage

I heard about this a few years ago.  Up untill today I hadn't heard anything further about it and had hoped this ridiculous plan had been totally scrapped.  This is a complete and utter waste of ^50million!!!  Is it really necessary to use mobile phone whilst travelling by tube?  I can just imagine now how bad this will become.  All the people babbling on their phones to their friends, family.  And then all the office workers on their mobiles to colleagues and clients discussing business.  The London Underground network was the one place to escape from darn mobile phone gossipers, it won't be for too much longer.  Completely uneccesary and waste of money this is.

[iant]

I have found that an early intervention with any phone user in the quiet coach usually works. The words " I'm sorry but you can't use your phone in here its the quiet coach" seems to be both effective and not cause offence. If it doesn't then have a word with the Train Manager.  Enforcement has to be in the hands of the occupants of the coach!

[Btline]

One thing they need to do is put more signs up in the carriage. The odd sticker on the windows won't work! How about one on each seat back?

Perhaps FGW^▸ (First Great Western) should bring back the family carriage to encourage young children into one coach. Of course, now most tables have been axed, this is less likely to happen...

[inspector_blakey]

[devil's advocate]
Splendid, so lets separate up each train and provide an individual ghetto coach for anyone who's likely to cause irritation. May I suggest coach A as the quiet coach, coach B for children, coach C for anyone who has the temerity to want to eat or drink whilst on-board, coach D for people with personal hygeine issues and coach E as the coach for smug killjoys who are now cotton-wool-wrapped and protected from any of the trivial inconveniences that a train journey might throw at them. Except, hold on, coach E will usually be the closest standard class vehicle to the blocks at Paddington and people might not read the signs 

Public transport is exactly that: public. That means that you have to deal with other people around you. Stop being so precious and get over it.
[/devil's advocate]

I heard about this a few years ago.  Up untill today I hadn't heard anything further about it and had hoped this ridiculous plan had been totally scrapped.  This is a complete and utter waste of ^50million!!!

Read the article. It's not LUL^▸ (London Underground Ltd)'s GBP 50m. It's being stumped up by the Chinese company installing the network. And honestly, given the amount of noise on the Underground in the tunnels through central London I've never thought of it as a haven of peace and relaxation. My bet is that most conversations will be thwarted by the levels of background noise anyway.

[grahame]

May I suggest coach A as the quiet coach, coach B for children, coach C for anyone who has the temerity to want to eat or drink whilst on-board, coach D for people with personal hygeine issues ...

But I want to eat the burger I just bought on the concourse with my children, and have a quiet journey. I'm on my way home from holiday and ran out of deodrant midweek.  So I can go in A, B, C or D, right 

(I'm agreeing with you, I think ... perhaps all carriages *should* be the same, and we should be concentrating on a minimum standard like a seat for all farepaying passengers who want want if their journey's over 20 minutes)

[inspector_blakey]

But I want to eat the burger I just bought on the concourse with my children, and have a quiet journey. I'm on my way home from holiday and ran out of deodrant midweek.  So I can go in A, B, C or D, right 

Certainly not! You must abandon your offspring in B, eat your food in C and only then may you sit in A for some peace and quiet. You must however periodically retreat to D whenever the occupants of A become offended by the odour

[BerkshireBugsy]

Better enforcement would help a lot.

First Great Western - are you listening?

_{Sorry for shouting. CfN.} 

MMM @CfN...Whilst I totally agree that passengers who ignore the "requirements" of travelling in the quiet coach, from my experience anyone why tries to stop the offender is like to be given an abusive reply...much like what happens if you try and stop someone from smoking at a station.

There are some people who travel in the Q C who do make the effort to move to the vestibule to take/make a call but then irritate passengers by standing on the mat which activates the sliding door every 5 seconds..

[dking]

I was on an XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) Voyager once between TAU^» (Taunton - next trains) & BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains). There were two middle-class women nattering away in voices that carried down the carriage - until it was pointed out to them by another passenger that it was a quiet coach. Some harrumphing but they did go quiet!

[XPT]

[devil's advocate]
Public transport is exactly that: public. That means that you have to deal with other people around you. Stop being so precious and get over it.

I think that is pretty harsh comment.

Yes it's public transport.  And in non Quiet Zone carriages, yes it's to be expected(especially here in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) unfortunately) that there will be some people using mobile phones.  But gawd why do most people have to talk so LOUDLY on them so that most of the carriage can hear them?  As mentioned in other countries such as Germany and The Netherlands, any of the very few percentage of people who make or receive a call on their mobile talk at a low volume and respect fellow passengers.  And the conversations are usually much much shorter.  None of this stupid inane babble, babble, babble about where they went at the weekend, what clothes they brought, what they're having for tea, etc, etc.  Why can't people be more like this here in the UK?

I am pleased to see there is a lot of support of people who are fed up with these mobile phone pests on trains.

What is needed really is....

A) There should be more signage/notices within the Quiet Zone carriages making passengers aware that talking on mobile phones is NOT permitted.  This should include stickers on the windows, on the backs of all seats, and on the internal sliding door entry to the Quiet Zone carriage.  Also clear PA^▸ (Public Address) announcements that this is a Quiet Zone and talking on mobile phones is NOT permitted.   

From my observations a number of people are either genuinelly not aware they're in a Quiet Zone carriage, or they aware but don't give a stuff that they're in a Quiet Zone and get on and talk on their mobiles.  For instance I've seen people at Paddington talking on their mobiles walking down the platform to the front of the train to board the first carriage(Coach A, Quiet Zone), get a seat and then continuing to babble on their mobile!!!  Why are they going to sit in a Quiet Zone carriage when they're talking on their mobile??!!  A decade or so these Quiet Zone carriages have been in use, but still there are many passengers who still don't understand what Quiet Zone means.

B) First Great Western and indeed other train companies really need to get more strict in enforcing the Quiet Zone rules.  For instance on the spot penalty fines of ^50 if caught talking on a mobile phone.  That may sound ridiculous to some people.  But train operators need to get tough regarding these Quiet Zones and the nuiseance people who ignore the rules.  If you really need to use your mobile to talk, don't go in one of the Quiet Zone carriages, simple.  On an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) only ONE Standard Class carriage is a Quiet Zone, there are FOUR other carriages available for passengers who wish to use their mobile.

C) And like I mentioned initially, on an 8 carriage HST set I don't think it's being unrealistic to say that TWO Standard Class carriages should be designated Quiet Zone carriages.  Three Standard Class carriages available to anyone wishing to use their mobile.  This would be a better fairer balance than what is now.

D) The reserved seat booking allocation of these HST's.  People who do not request a Quiet Zone carriage when booking, should not be allocated a reserved seat in a Quiet Zone carriage!

[JayMac]

[devil's advocate]
Public transport is exactly that: public. That means that you have to deal with other people around you. Stop being so precious and get over it.

I think that is pretty harsh comment.

In my opinion, harsh but fair. And inspector_blakey made clear he was playing devil's advocate.

B) First Great Western and indeed other train companies really need to get more strict in enforcing the Quiet Zone rules.  For instance on the spot penalty fines of ^50 if caught talking on a mobile phone.  That may sound ridiculous to some people.  

Doesn't sound ridiculous to me. I'd say bonkers!

Who would issue the 'fines'? Rail staff would all need to be PACE^» (Police & Criminal Evidence Act - about) trained to do such a thing. Railway Byelaws would need changing and possibly primary legislation introduced. There are no 'on the spot' fines issued for any offences in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom). Fixed penalties are all paid later. Also anyone challenging their fine/fixed penalty in court by pleading not guilty would require the presence in court of the person who issued it. So if we do give PACE powers to all on train staff, will the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) be happy to cover the regular staff shortages when their TMs^‡(resolve) have to attend court?

Of course, this extra legislation and the necessary costs involved in implementing it can be borne through the fare box. Are you happy to see ticket costs rise just to prosecute a few inconsiderate mobile phone users?