Quiet Carriage / Coach: restrictions and issues - ongoing discussion, merged topic

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

Well, if you're not alone in the coach, and you admit that a third of the time someone complains (whether you think you're being quiet or not), then I have to say that I think you're in the wrong - especially if you don't respect the fact that another passenger sitting in the quiet carriage is entitled to expect people not to break the rules.

If the carriage is empty then it's the old adage of 'if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around does it make a noise?' Nobody would ever know, so I would not see a problem then (as long as you kept a keen look-out for anyone).

[Btline]

Just apply common sense and be respectful to others - WHATEVER carriage you're in.

[XPT]

Personally I think rather than each HST^▸ (High Speed Train) set having just one Standard Class Quiet Zone carriage and one 1st Class Quiet Zone carriage, this should be turned around and have one Standard and one 1st Class carriage designated as Mobile Phone Permitted Zone so that all the mobile phone pests can go in those carriages and be noisy together.  All other carriages should be Quiet Zones instead.....

Being more sensible and realistic though, I really think HST sets should have TWO Standard Class Quiet Zone carriages designed to accommodate those people who do not wish to hear annoying mobile phone conversations from other passengers.  Just one Quiet Zone carriage is not enough.

A few Sundays ago I booked to travel from London-Bristol at short notice.  I tried to book a Quiet Zone as I usually do but according to the East Coast booking engine, no reserved seating in Quiet Zone was available.  When it came to boarding the train I boarded at the front of the train for the Quiet Zone hoping to get a seat.  But indeed every single seat in that carriage was booked.  I had to find another seat elsewhere on the train.  God, what a racket from people using darn mobile phones.  For instance some women babbling on their mobile to their friend, finishes the call after about 10 minutes, and then phoning another of their friends and saying much the same all over again, and then they phone another friend again and it's the same all over again!   And then some bloke in his 20's talking LOUDLY on his mobile to his mate(or whoever) with frequent use of the f word.  Absolutely no consideration towards other passengers!

I understand if it's a proper important call they have to make or receive.  But it's just babble babble about trivial things about such things as what they did at the weekend, what new clothes they brought, etc, etc. Can't they wait till they get back home to have such converstations??  Not once have I ever been on a train and heard someone on their mobile with an important emergency call.  And then there's the mobile office brigade on weekdays too, they're just as annoying. 

Mobile phones are the number 1 annoyance of the 21st Century in my opinion.  Most Particularly in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom).  Other countries like Germany, Holland, etc from my experience very few people talk on their mobile phones on public transport and of the few that do they talk at a quiet volume and respect other passengers.  What a contrast to what it's like in the UK!

I think it's not too much to ask for that that of the five Standard Class carriages on an HST, two of them should be designated as Quiet Zones.

[bobm]

I am not sure having extra quiet coaches will make much difference.  In my experience the existing ones are rarely enforced.  What is needed is better education.  It is not necessary to shout into a mobile phone to use it.  If I take a call on the train I suspect anyone sitting the other side of the aisle would have difficulty hearing me when the train is in motion but the caller at the other end has no problem.  Even so I still don't use it in the quiet coach.

[Phil]

Technology is the answer. It's really not difficult to block phone signals in a defined area. As soon as people realise they're not even going to receive a phone / wi-fi / 3g signal in a particular coach, they'll get up and find a seat elsewhere, rather than pretend they haven't seen the signs.

[XPT]

Technology is the answer. It's really not difficult to block phone signals in a defined area. As soon as people realise they're not even going to receive a phone / wi-fi / 3g signal in a particular coach, they'll get up and find a seat elsewhere, rather than pretend they haven't seen the signs.

This is what is needed. c2c were supposed to be doing this back in 2008, with headlines in The Metro and on London Tonight all about these new mobile-phone blocking Quiet Zone carriages that were supposed to be introduced.  It never turned out to be unfortunately.

I'll post more on this subject later.

[grahame]

Technology is the answer. It's really not difficult to block phone signals in a defined area. As soon as people realise they're not even going to receive a phone / wi-fi / 3g signal in a particular coach, they'll get up and find a seat elsewhere, rather than pretend they haven't seen the signs.

But that raises a very interesting question, Phil - what are the rules about using your laptop online (via 3g / WiFi) in the quiet carriage (with speaker turned off)?

[mjones]

Or simply sending text messages or emails, which are surely entirely legitimate activities you might do in the quiet carriage because you want to get on with some work?  This really has to come down to better enforcement. There are a few places where signposting could be a bit clearer, but the main culprits seem to be simply ignoring them.

[Phil]

Technology is the answer. It's really not difficult to block phone signals in a defined area. As soon as people realise they're not even going to receive a phone / wi-fi / 3g signal in a particular coach, they'll get up and find a seat elsewhere, rather than pretend they haven't seen the signs.

But that raises a very interesting question, Phil - what are the rules about using your laptop online (via 3g / WiFi) in the quiet carriage (with speaker turned off)?

To be brutally honest Grahame, I think they should be excluded too.

I was fortunate enough to be given a chance to visit the Wiltshire and Swindon History Centre recently. In the clearly marked Quiet Room, someone turned on their Macbook and it emitted a very loud chime.

Unbelievable, I know!  But it just goes to show that even with technology switched to silent, it can still be an irritant to others.

[Phil]

Or simply sending text messages or emails, which are surely entirely legitimate activities you might do in the quiet carriage because you want to get on with some work?  This really has to come down to better enforcement. There are a few places where signposting could be a bit clearer, but the main culprits seem to be simply ignoring them.

Add to the "main culprits" those who don't seem to know how to, or want to, turn off the button click, and even sending text messages becomes a problem. I was thinking of the button click on mobile phones and smart phones when I wrote that, but to be honest even the clatter of laptop keys is an irritant in itself, especially when you're sat anywhere near.

People have had ten years to get used to the etiquette of quiet carriages. They are not learning or  simply will not learn. Rather than extend the experiment to other coaches, it's way overdue time to enforce it in that one small area via technological methods. Soon there won't be any T.O.C. staff on trains at all (other than those travelling to and from meetings in 1st class, obviously), so "better enforcement" is I'm afraid not an option.

[lordgoata]

They should be banned on all forms of transport when they are operational (push bikes could be tricky!) - the technology is there, but I am sure someone would scream its their human right to use one.

I adore technology. I love my mobile phone. But by God do I also hate what it (technology), and they (mobiles) have done to this world.

Note to self: I really am turning into one of the grumpy old men 

[Phil]

@lordgoata

*high fives*

[Wilf19]

I always used to sit in the quiet carriage but gave it up as a bad job because of the number of people who ignored it. Then if I approached the offenders (politely) about it  I found I either got a mouthful of abuse or just ignored. Almost worse are the people who leave their mobile ring switched on and then run down the quiet carriage to get to the vestibule shouting "hang on - I'm in the quiet carriage" into the wretched thing.

Better enforcement would help a lot.

So now I sit anywhere in the train and have a hefty pair of enclosed headphones which seems to shut out most of the inane babble that goes on and, I hope, don't disturb anyone else.

Having said that there seems to be a largely mobile dead zone between about Newbury and Taunton so on my usual trains it normally goes pretty quiet. Heading west the signal seems to pick up again just before Somerton Tunnel - shame.   

[matt473]

Maybe a better way of doing things is for people to only be booked in quiet zones if they request it as I have been booked into coach A many times when booking an advance ticket. Just because the seats are booked does not mean people want to be in the quiet carriage so maybe TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) can make allocate you a seat in the carriage only if requested (Unless these are the only seats remaining for advance tickets).

[inspector_blakey]

There is already legislation in place that probably covers all of these issues (as long as you can accept a slightly loose interpretation of a mobile phone, anyway) in byelaw 7(1):

7. Music, sound, advertising and carrying on a trade
(1) Except with written permission from an Operator no person on the railway shall, to the annoyance of any person:
(i) sing; or
(ii) use any instrument, article or equipment for the production or reproduction of sound.

Enforcement being virtually non-existent is the main issue, but then much of the time guards have better things to be doing than refereeing petty squabbles between passengers about mobile phone use. I think that GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) did successfully prosecute at least once under byelaw 7 for someone using a personal stereo too loud, but I can't find any confirmation on t'interweb (a Google search in fact pulls up one of my posts on this forum from 2008 saying more or less exactly what I'm saying here  )

Interesting point regarding the films that were supposedly applied to windows to block mobile phone signals. I remember some years ago that there was an item on You and Yours on Radio 4 in which it was suggested that the anti-glare film on the windows of the Voyager fleet was blocking mobile phone signals. Unfortunately they lost a certain amount of credibility when they tested their theory between Oxford and Banbury: at the time (and perhaps still today) the Oxford Canal corridor was notorious for awful mobile phone reception.

Incidentally, the lack of mobile phone use is one of the things I actually like about flying... Anyone's mobile chirping into life on an aircraft is likely to attract rather more than a hard stare from the cabin staff.