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chrisr_75
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« on: December 05, 2014, 12:30:05 » |
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From the BBC» : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-30344443Welsh Assembly Government appear to be considering a not for profit company to run Welsh railways, although the not for profit company being set up now is to oversee electrification & south wales Metro, so the article headline is a little misleading. However, interesting to see if they go through with this when ATW▸ 's franchise is up for grabs. |
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trainer
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« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2014, 22:22:16 » |
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Whenever I see the term 'Not-for-profit Company' I am reminded of the American radio announcement often played by the late and lamented Kenny Everett:
'This is a non-profit making radio station. It isn't supposed to be, but it's just the way it is.'
I can't help feeling that this is the truth about any railway company that delivers a high quality service at all times of the day and all times of the year.
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chrisr_75
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« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2015, 16:17:24 » |
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Further update on this story: A plan for a not-for-profit firm to run railways in Wales will be ready by the summer, said Transport Minister Edwina Hart. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-31135287Programme on BBC1 Wales tonight at 22:40 covering this topic. |
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Rhydgaled
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2015, 07:48:30 » |
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Programme on BBC1 Wales tonight at 22:40 covering this topic. Thanks for the heads up. There was one point in the programme where I wondered if Mrs Hart knew what she was talking about. She said something like 'Arriva might end up running it for us'. Huw Edwards noticed too and challanged her on the matter, and she said something about offering a 'slim profit margin' or something like that. That doesn't sound like a 'not for profit'/not for dividend' operator to me. She mentioned Mersyrail a few times, is that a true not for profit operator? Or, is she really not talking about a not-for-profit operator at all but rather going for a consession/management contract model where the state takes revenue risk rather than the TOC▸ ? In other words (from the recent TrawsCymru bus service tendering): Fixed Cost (^Net Subsidy^): The Contractor receives a fixed subsidy to provide a bus service. The Contractor also retains the revenue generated. vs Full cost (^Gross Cost based^): The Contractor receives a fixed subsidy to provide a bus service. The Authority retains the revenue generated |
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Don't DOO▸ it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
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Rhydgaled
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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2015, 13:05:45 » |
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Finally got round to looking up Merseyrail and answered my own question (see post above). Merseyrail is operated by Serco and Abellio, as a concession rather than a franchise. Thus, if Mrs Hart really means to copy Merseyrail, she is NOT talking about a not-for-dividend/profit operator at all.
Also, surely a not-for-profit operator must be a state-owned concern. In other news, if I've understood correctly, the Europe View section of the Feb 2015 Modern Railways suggests the new EU» 4th railway package (due around 2020-2025 it seems) will mandate that all train services must be contracted through competitive tender, the state-owned railway companys will no longer be allowed automatic operating rights. A not-for-profit company to operate Welsh railways would therefore risk being outbid and thus having nothing to do, a big shame if you ask me. Sounds like the Tories are running the EU and trying to force privatisation.
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Don't DOO▸ it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
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JayMac
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2015, 13:26:16 » |
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Also, surely a not-for-profit operator must be a state-owned concern.
Could it not be a co-operative? Any profits/dividends then go to members rather than shareholders. |
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"A clear conscience laughs at a false accusation."
"Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot."
"Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity."
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Rhydgaled
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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2015, 23:53:53 » |
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Also, surely a not-for-profit operator must be a state-owned concern.
Could it not be a co-operative? Any profits/dividends then go to members rather than shareholders. What is the difference between 'shareholders' and 'members of a co-operative'? And surely money (profit) paid to members of a co-operative is not available for re-investment in the railways in the same way as if it had been paid to shareholders of a company. |
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Don't DOO▸ it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
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JayMac
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2015, 00:35:20 » |
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Member dividend comes after investment with most co-operatives. There are however wider social benefits in having a co-operative versus a corporation. It has been studied for Wales' train services: http://www.party.coop/files/2012/11/Welsh-Rail-pamphlet-online.pdf.pdf.pdf.pdf |
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« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 00:40:53 by bignosemac »
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"A clear conscience laughs at a false accusation."
"Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot."
"Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity."
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2015, 17:06:45 » |
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From the BBC» : Rail renationalisation unnecessary, says transport expert Franchise operated trains would be better served with "more experienced staff", Prof Stuart Cole saysCalls by Labour to renationalise some train services have been deemed "unnecessary".Professor of transport at the University of South Wales, Stuart Cole, said experienced staff are needed. Speaking to BBC Radio Wales, he said that while the "franchise system has not been performing" a public sector approach was not the answer. Previously, Transport Minister Edwina Hart said not-for-profit firms could run Welsh train services. Recently, Labour's shadow transport secretary, Michael Dugher, said more public control of the railways will result in a better service. Prof Cole said: "Private companies run the railways under contract in the way Marriott hotels and McDonald's are run under contract - which have very strict guidelines. But what's been happening is that these guidelines have not been very strict [for the railways]." He said the answer was a franchise system managed by "professional railway people rather than civil servants". He said the answer was a franchise system managed by "professional railway people rather than civil servants".
Oh, if only ...    |
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William Huskisson MP▸ was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830. Many more have died in the same way since then. Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.
"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner." Discuss.
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Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
Posts: 5455
There are some who call me... Tim
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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2015, 18:02:10 » |
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He said the answer was a franchise system managed by "professional railway people rather than civil servants".
Oh, if only ... This is an idea that could have legs. Just imagine an NHS run by healthcare experts..! |
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Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2015, 18:23:53 » |
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William Huskisson MP▸ was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830. Many more have died in the same way since then. Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.
"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner." Discuss.
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