New trains from old?

[whole diary]

[onthecushions]

Raising the Ryde tunnel track may have made sense in the milder 1960's but the floods of 2010 and 2014 filled the tunnel half way and then fully, rendering the loss of clearance of little value.

Better drainage and prevention of water ingress might help but there are times when nature must win temporarily. As not many people travel when the weather is that bad, suspension of service is reasonable.

The problem with the Parry vehicle is its low capacity - heavy rail's real advantage.

A bi-mode class 230 that could reach both Shanklin and Wootton might just lead to greater things.

OTC

[Chris125]

Raising the Ryde tunnel track may have made sense in the milder 1960's but the floods of 2010 and 2014 filled the tunnel half way and then fully, rendering the loss of clearance of little value.

The recent floods have been caused by Monktonmead Brook (which the railway follows from Smallbrook) bursting it's banks and following the track down into the tunnel - that would happen whatever the clearances in the tunnel, which I presume were reduced to minimise the impact of high tides.

While headroom isn't ideal the tight reverse curve in the tunnel and esplanade platform also restrict length as well as some very restrictive overbridges too. That said the photo below shows a gauging trial when ex-Merseyrail 503s were under serious consideration in the 80s; a relatively compact design not so different from sub-surface LU stock.

https://twitter.com/MrTimDunn/status/622851071229186048

[IndustryInsider]

Don't think there's been an official announcement yet, but being widely rumoured that three Class 230s will be used on Bedford to Bletchley services from December 2018 as part of the rolling stock plan for the new West Midlands Franchise.

[grahame]

Don't think there's been an official announcement yet, but being widely rumoured that three Class 230s will be used on Bedford to Bletchley services from December 2018 as part of the rolling stock plan form the new West Midlands Franchise.

There's a great deal of logic in using them on that line.  Lots of stops, no main line running, and (certainly when I last used it) some trains formed of a 153 which was more full than comfortable.  Also an isolated diesel outpost within a sea of electrification in the area in that franchise.

[ChrisB]

Good stop gap until EWR comes along

[IndustryInsider]

Indeed, although the existing Marston Vale line stopping service is supposed to continue alongside the EWR services when they commence, so perhaps they will last even longer than that?

A bit of an increase in capacity as well, as in my experience the line is usually worked with one of their three 2-car 150s and a single car Class 153.

[stuving]

Vivarail recently announced they have just about finished their first "production" battery D78s.

Photo credit: Ben Jones
230002 nearing completion in Vivarail’s main workshop.  This 2-car train is the first production battery unit in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) and will be in passenger service by the summer.  The train is powered by 2 lithium ion batteries per car (4 in total) and has a range of 40 miles.

Battery trains are not new but battery technology is – and Vivarail is leading the way in new and innovative ways to bring them into service.  230002 has a total of 4 battery rafts each with a capacity of 106 kWh and requires an 8 minute charge at each end of the journey. With a 10 minute charge this range is extended to 50 miles and battery technology is developing all the time so these distances will increase.

The train can be charged through existing infrastructure – OHL^▸ (Over-Head Line) or 3rd rail – and for non-electrified lines Vivarail has developed a static battery bank as an alternative. In each case the train is charged automatically through a patented Automatic Charging Point.  This is a simple and elegant design that will allow battery trains to replace diesel units with a minimum of time and effort.
...

Now, the words do seem to suggest they have agreement with a ToC to run some of their trains. But where is this passenger service going to be? And where will the recharging be done? I'm pretty sure they will not have fitted any pantographs yet. Would they be installing these rapid charging points at a station, with or without buffer batteries? that sounds like it would need a pretty big stack of safety documents, even for a trial. I can believe they could put the 3rd rail shoe gear back, or more likely pick some bogies with it still on, but that seriously limits where it could run. 

There's more details on that page and others. Peering closely at the pictures of the battery packs, not only are they the same rather bilious shade of green as the LIMP batteries removed from the Harwich IPEMUs^▸ (Independely Powered Electic Multiple Unit (train running on batteries)), but they have Valence labels - so they are still using those old things (the cheapskates).

[paul7575]

Would Bedford - Bletchley be in range?  That was/is supposed to be getting 3 x 230s according to earlier plans by the new TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)?  I had assumed they’d be diesel though...

Paul

[stuving]

Would Bedford - Bletchley be in range?  That was/is supposed to be getting 3 x 230s according to earlier plans by the new TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)?  I had assumed they’d be diesel though...

Paul

I think that plan went up in smoke, since diesel 230s will no longer be available in time for the new franchise. And it's not 3rd rail territory, is it?

[paul7575]

The diesel electric 230s didn’t involve 3rd rail pickup as far as I recall.  There have been so many different reports in forums though I may be out of date.

Googling suggests they were to be introduced for Dec 2018, so not actually planned for the first year of that franchise...

Paul

[Surrey 455]

I hadn't realised that Vivarail had moved to battery power. Robert Llewellyn (Kryten from Red Dwarf) took a look at the new train in a video posted in November 2017. The train shown also has a diesel generator as well as a battery. The purpose wasn't fully explained so I don't know if it was there just during development or whether it will appear in the production models.

https://youtu.be/9s4heZe7ChM

[grahame]

Would Bedford - Bletchley be in range?  That was/is supposed to be getting 3 x 230s according to earlier plans by the new TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)?  I had assumed they’d be diesel though...

Paul

I think that plan went up in smoke, since diesel 230s will no longer be available in time for the new franchise. And it's not 3rd rail territory, is it?

There were various stock plans floating around ... a chance meeting with one of the key people involved in stock resourcing as one franchise moved to another would suggest that the was not completeness or certainly in any of the plans ...

[JayMac]

They keep trying don't they?

And still no firm orders for these re-purposed D78s.

I truly hope I never see a large fleet of them on the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) network. Vivarail have recently been hawking them to the Wales & Borders bidders. I hope the WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) have insisted on new build in the tender.

[Western Pathfinder]

This might prove of interest https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SnNaMPR-e1I&feature=youtu.be.

[stuving]

I hadn't realised that Vivarail had moved to battery power. Robert Llewellyn (Kryten from Red Dwarf) took a look at the new train in a video posted in November 2017. The train shown also has a diesel generator as well as a battery. The purpose wasn't fully explained so I don't know if it was there just during development or whether it will appear in the production models.

https://youtu.be/9s4heZe7ChM

I reckon the train with one diesel and one battery was just to demonstrate that modularity. But Vivarail's use of "production" for the trains they are building now is a bit questionable, since they hand-build them all anyway. As far as they are concerned, the diesel modules and trains are fully approved and in production. Do they have all the systems and software to manage a diesel/battery hybrid?

The original first public use for Coventry-Nuneaton was lost due to the fire and the loss of a grant from Coventry City. The Marston Vale trains were announced (if only indirectly, via the press) long after that, though the franchise bid went in just before the fire. They are reportedly diesel, but only two-car units rather than the three-car ones planned for Leamington. WMT need something new, pretty soon, so I guess they don't have so many options (though only three are needed).

What they have just announced are electric two-car trains to be in use this summer. The batteries should not have been too hard to configure, as they were made to run a train. That's still true if they buy some more from Valence, as they have chosen to go with them as suppliers. It's likely the DC^▸ (Direct Current) voltage in a class 379 isn't 750V, but that may not be a big issue. There should be standard boxes to manage charge/discharge from the common DC bus too.

But the 379s had all the 25 kV input stuff already, and I think they were charging only while sitting waiting and then switching over just once. Having to install that - pantograph, transformer, cables, rectifier - and then manage its operation, that doesn't sound easy. And even if you buy existing bits (Who from? Off old trains?)  finding space is not going to be easily. So while that's certainly possible, I've seen no sign it's been tried let alone ready to run.

And as for their charging points, if they need to be installed in several stations in less than six months, with their feed at 11 kV or more ... sound likely?