Class 387 coming to Thames Valley - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

The choice of seat colour fabric unfortunately shows up stains clearly as seen on the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) with these interiors. I now spend more time looking and avoiding incontinence stains than reservation tickets! I guess with old fabric colours that hide the stains it's better off not knowing!

I think the shade of grey is noticeably darker than was installed on the HST and Class 166 unit.  They were indeed too light shaded for such a use, but hopefully this darker shade will conceal the various stains much better!

[bobm]

Two four car units were unveiled for the media to have a look over at Paddington today, before entering service on Monday.

Look impressive with decent legroom.  I was surprised at the number of tables for what is essentially a commuter train.

Might be a few surprised people at Hayes & Harlington on Monday expecting a two carriage train and this eight carriage one rolls up!

[grahame]

Look impressive with decent legroom.  I was surprised at the number of tables for what is essentially a commuter train.

Look nice - nice pics too, thanks, Bob

[Thatcham Crossing]

The train might be 4 times longer than a 2-coach 165, but passenger density looks like it will be a lot less in that layout.

Guess I'm just saying that we shouldn't expect it to carry 4 times as many people.

Looks great though, pity it will be a while before they reach the B&H^▸ (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury).

[Electric train]

They are meant really for outer suburban and not the metro use they will initially be put too.  So the Oxford semi fasts, Newbury's etc and limited stoppers east of Reading

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

Definitely meant for the outer suburban services as ET says, not the riff-raff east of Slough who now have 3 years to mess up our nice new trains with cannabis odours, graffiti (especially in First Class), chewing gum, feet on seats etc. 

[Oxonhutch]

Definitely meant for the outer suburban services as ET says, not the riff-raff east of Slough who now have 3 years to mess up our nice new trains with cannabis odours, graffiti (especially in First Class), chewing gum, feet on seats etc. 

First Class? You'll be lucky. I didn't see any provision when I glanced over the unit in the depot recently.

Hence in anticipation, the total removal from the 165s and de facto removal from the 166s.

[paul7575]

The train might be 4 times longer than a 2-coach 165, but passenger density looks like it will be a lot less in that layout.

Guess I'm just saying that we shouldn't expect it to carry 4 times as many people.

Looks great though, pity it will be a while before they reach the B&H^▸ (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury).

Passenger density is highly relevant isn't it.  On the routes the units will be used on, capacity includes a standing allowance, and in terms of shifting people into Paddington in the peaks, that is the figure DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) will be considering.   Less seats = more standees.

My experience on the 387/1s temporarily in use on Thameslink is that they just 'feel' extremely spacious inside compared to a 165 or 166, despite individual vehicles being shorter.    I think the use of more glass in the vicinity of the doors has a lot to do with the 'openness'.   (Is that a real word?)
 
Paul

[paul7575]

First Class? You'll be lucky. I didn't see any provision when I glanced over the unit in the depot recently.

Hence in anticipation, the total removal from the 165s and de facto removal from the 166s.

The existing Thameslink 387/1s have a marked section of First Class at one end, but as per the usual 'Southern' specification the 2+2 seats are physically identical to the rest of the train, and as in some variants of 377 there isn't necessarily a partition door.   I suggest that just as in the Southern trains, paying for first class is just a way of improving chances of a seat.   Rightly or wrongly, I'd expect GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s trains to have a similar set up.    Equalising down to the typical set up used in south London...

Paul

[IndustryInsider]

Thanks for the excellent photos, Bobm.  You can clearly see the darker shade of grey in those photos, so hopefully no visible stains!

First Class? You'll be lucky. I didn't see any provision when I glanced over the unit in the depot recently.

I would be a little surprised if fast Oxford's didn't have first class provision, given the affluence of the passengers on that route, but perhaps that will be added later in the fashion Paul suggests?  I guess it depends how many of them will end up on Oxford fasts, and how many will be covered by IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)/SET^▸ (Super Express Train (now IET))/IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) units.  Certainly with a layout inside similar to Chiltern's Clubman trains, who seem to do perfectly well with just one class of travel, GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) might just try the same principle given the likely furthest reaches of Oxford/Swindon/Newbury.

[stuving]

Porterbrook's brochure doesn't show any first seating, and the carriage type names suggest none too. However, Porterbrook don't spend much time on keeping their site up to date, and only list their 387 fleet as leased to GTR.

PS: That brochure actually says it's for class 387/3, which are the c2c ones - makeup DMOS(A)-MOSL-PTOSL(W)-DMOS(B) and 219 seats.

[paul7575]

Porterbrook's revised brochure dates from their decision to order a speculative build, it wasn't decided at that stage where they were going -there was some debate elsewhere about whether or not the rest of the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) units would be 387/1s or 387/3s.  It has subsequently been decided that only the c2c units will be numbered as 387/3.

But as I said earlier, when the only difference between First and Standard is stickers and a stripe on the outside, and stickers inside, with a general purpose antimacassar tied onto the same seats and headrests as the rest of the unit, then the Rosco wouldn't need to differentiate the cars by type, 'First' provision, and marking of it, is purely down to what the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) decides.

Paul

[IndustryInsider]

Here's a report from ITV, very negative and focussing on the electrification delays more than the new trains, but at least Bobm gets his one second of fame at the beginning... 

http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2016-09-02/new-generation-of-trains-revealed-today/

[bobm]

As scheduled the first two GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) Electrostar passenger services operated this morning, the 07:15 from Paddington to Hayes & Harlington and the 07:18 in the other direction.

The stock for the 07:18 comes into Paddington before running out empty to Hayes



The 07:15 left Paddington on time and as you'd expect from an electric train was very quiet and accelerated smoothly out of the station, quickly passing the 07:15 HST^▸ (High Speed Train) to Cardiff on the adjacent line.

The train was lightly loaded going out. Saloon temperature is a subjective thing but it was slightly high for my preference and indeed I did see one other person, unsuccessfully, try to open a window.  It wasn't a particularly cold morning so I wonder how it will cope on a hot day.

The other thing I noticed was the distance from the platform to the train.  Hard to show but with a curved platform there's not only a step but also a large gap.



The onboard audible announcements are clear and gave details of which doors would not open at stations with short platforms.  There is also an announcement, as on Southern, to tell you which coach you are in. I do wonder why it couldn't have all been recorded by the same voice.  It does jar a bit when a second voice chips in to tell you the coach number.

After arriving at Hayes the two four car units shunted out of the station while a five car turbo from Reading came in on the adjacent platform.




After it departed, well loaded, the 387 came back into the station and despite another train just a few minutes in front of it saw a few dozen people board.



It was said on Friday at the media launch that this train is replacing a former two coach service.  If that is the case, I'm not sure how they all fitted on board the old train!  Admittedly I was in the front coach and a lot of people heading into Paddington like to be at the front.  Also at West Ealing the two car and eight car stop board is in the same place so most people were at that end of the platform with the result there were a couple of dozen people standing in the coach.   I understand there was plenty of space further down the train.



There are currently four 387s in service with another pair expected next week.  Eventually there will be 45 in the fleet.

For the moment they will operate the 07:15, 17:18, 18:48 and 19:15 Paddington to Hayes and the 07:18, 07:48, 19:24 and 19:54 from Hayes to Paddington.

[paul7575]

The train was lightly loaded going out. Saloon temperature is a subjective thing but it was slightly high for my preference and indeed I did see one other person, unsuccessfully, try to open a window.  It wasn't a particularly cold morning so I wonder how it will cope on a hot day.

Perhaps the aircon was only just starting up and hadn't yet controlled the temperature?   But people will have to get used to the idea of not being able to intervene by making unilateral decisions to open windows.   The emergency windows are just that.

Paul