Class 387 coming to Thames Valley - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

That's the suggestion being made by the rumour....

Right!  I think I'll await for the report from Peter Hendy to be released before I comment further...! 

[paul7575]

Another possibility, they could always take all the 387s as planned but delay the 365s.  Then the latter could go for a decent overhaul...

Paul

[Oberon]

If in CP6^▸ (Control Period 6 - The five year period between 2019 and 2024) it might be Reading-Bedwyn perhaps?

[Rhydgaled]

Another possibility, they could always take all the 387s as planned but delay the 365s.  Then the latter could go for a decent overhaul...

I seem to recall reading in Modern Railways, correct me if I'm wrong, that the current operator of either the 365s or the 387s is expected to be unable to release them on time anyway, so a delay to the cascade of one of the two fleets may happen.

[paul7575]

Another possibility, they could always take all the 387s as planned but delay the 365s.  Then the latter could go for a decent overhaul...

I seem to recall reading in Modern Railways, correct me if I'm wrong, that the current operator of either the 365s or the 387s is expected to be unable to release them on time anyway, so a delay to the cascade of one of the two fleets may happen.

Yes, I think Modern Railways cast doubt on the progress of route clearance for 700s on the Great Northern.  That would mean the 365 release being delayed.  However discussions elsewhere suggested the problem only concerns the 700 shoe gear, so it may not be a huge problem to deal with.

Paul

[eightf48544]

Yes, I think Modern Railways cast doubt on the progress of route clearance for 700s on the Great Northern.  That would mean the 365 release being delayed.  However discussions elsewhere suggested the problem only concerns the 700 shoe gear, so it may not be a huge problem to deal with.

Paul

if it's shoe gear it will be a huge problem for Thameslink how will they get South of the Thames?

[grahame]

if it's shoe gear it will be a huge problem for Thameslink how will they get South of the Thames?

Isn't Reading station (for example) south of the Thames? 

[paul7575]

Yes, I think Modern Railways cast doubt on the progress of route clearance for 700s on the Great Northern.  That would mean the 365 release being delayed.  However discussions elsewhere suggested the problem only concerns the 700 shoe gear, so it may not be a huge problem to deal with.

Paul

if it's shoe gear it will be a huge problem for Thameslink how will they get South of the Thames?

The line side equipment positioning, and ballast height, is already OK with shoegear all over the 'Southern'.   What they have to do on the GN is to actively make everything clear of the same shoegear.   The worst case scenario would be something fixed, such as a steel beam on an under-bridge.

This is all based on the assumption that Thameslink 700s will not retract the shoegear when on AC, which 377s and 387s do.

Paul

[Electric train]

Another possibility, they could always take all the 387s as planned but delay the 365s.  Then the latter could go for a decent overhaul...

I seem to recall reading in Modern Railways, correct me if I'm wrong, that the current operator of either the 365s or the 387s is expected to be unable to release them on time anyway, so a delay to the cascade of one of the two fleets may happen.

Yes, I think Modern Railways cast doubt on the progress of route clearance for 700s on the Great Northern.  That would mean the 365 release being delayed.  However discussions elsewhere suggested the problem only concerns the 700 shoe gear, so it may not be a huge problem to deal with.

Paul

Its all rumour and speculation regarding the class 700 route clearance; there are some issues that need to be resolved however it is more about paperwork and documentation than anything to do with the infrastructure or the units themselves.

There is piece of work been going on about susceptibility of some non standard lengths of track circuits but that is not a major bit of work to resolve any issues flagged up.
There are some concerns over the new type of Pan used (the TSI compliant type) however this also effects a number of other recently introduced units.

Thameslink, Siemens and GTR have a team working on the introduction of the class 700, this team has been dealing with the introduction for a few years now so the known unknowns are being worked on.

[DidcotPunter]

Had my first ride on a Class 387 on Saturday from Gatwick Airport to St Pancras Int Low Level. It'll be interesting to see the ride quality of these when they transfer to the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) and get up to their 110mph max speed. On the Quarry lines between Redhill and Purley it was most definitely "lively" - this is the only bit of the Brighton Main Line where the train got up to any sort of decent speed - around 80mph was my estimate. OK I sat over the bogies on the motor coach so I wouldn't expect a smooth ride but the general jolting about was accompanied by numerous pronounced lurches, which I put down to condition of track, rather than the train. Reminded me of the bad old days under Railtrack when track maintenance felt like it was an optional extra. The GWML track seems to be better maintained now so hopefully the ride quality will improve when they transfer to their new home.

Overall the 387 seems good enough for an outer suburban train. 2+2 seating with a mix of mostly airline-style seating and some tables. The seats look like ironing boards but I personally found them quite comfortable for the 50 minute journey. They should be quite an improvement on the turbos on the Oxford/Newbury services but I wouldn't say that they're any better than the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) or 180s.

[ellendune]

... Reminded me of the bad old days under Railtrack when track maintenance felt like it was an optional extra.

That's what happens when you give the maintenance contract to someone who can set their own workload and get the client to pay (another contractor) to renew it when it gets too bad!

[paul7575]

... OK I sat over the bogies on the motor coach so I wouldn't expect a smooth ride...

Er, all the coaches on Electrostar variants have motors, except the one with the pantograph.  Have you got that the right way round?   

Paul

[DidcotPunter]

... OK I sat over the bogies on the motor coach so I wouldn't expect a smooth ride...

Er, all the coaches on Electrostar variants have motors, except the one with the pantograph.  Have you got that the right way round?   

Paul

Thanks Paul, I should have checked that    It was definitely motored but I didn't notice the pantograph as we were running on third rail most of the way. I think we switched from DC^▸ (Direct Current) to AC at City Thameslink but I headed straight for the exit at St Pancras and didn't glance at the train.

I'm obviously locked in a timewarp from when I used to travel to school on the Class 302 EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) on the Southend line. Like all first generation BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) EMUs they had a single motor coach and you certainly knew if you were travelling in it. Apart from all the electro-mechanical noises it rode like a sack of potatoes!

[devon_metro]

I've traveled London Bridge to Brighton and return on them and the ride quality is far superior to Desiros. Considerably less sideways motion. They are absolute rockets when on OHLE too!

[IndustryInsider]

They are absolute rockets when on OHLE too!

They certainly are.  As are the Javelin units which have outstanding acceleration at lower speeds (0-60 in about 45 seconds I believe), so hopefully the SET^▸ (Super Express Train (now IET)) trains will have similar performance - probably slightly reduced by the weight of the diesel engines of course.  It'll all help reduce journey times and delays over what the current diesel traction can offer.