Class 387 coming to Thames Valley - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[didcotdean]

The most interesting thing I found with the service diagram in the report was that the hourly Cardiffs would all miss out Reading. I think before on some of the 'illustrative' allocation lists this service was in general down for a 5-car set, so this would maybe make some sense.

There has been speculation before that if there were trains originating in the Thames Valley that were one or non stop from Reading into London with stock of a decent standard (in particular not 3+2 seating) that the Reading commuters could be weaned off the longer distance services to some extent.  There would be 4-5 an hour on the published plans.

[ChrisB]

Yup - I can see set-down only in the AM and pick-up only on the PM a lot more once these other 365/387s services kick-in.

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

There are quite a few stations that are to be served by the new emu^s were the RL platforms aren^t long enough for 8 car formations (which Paul quotes above as the chosen mode of operation on the RL^s), my own local station Pangbourne included.   

I do hope the plan is to lengthen platforms but I suspect we^ll be stuck with SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening), which lengthens dwell times especially if we^re looking at more than just the end doors being held closed.

Incidentally, if SDO is to be used with DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) it has to be a fully automatic system which I^ve seen referred to as FASDO.  FASDO can work out where the train has stopped (ie station, platform, position) and then decide which doors to open, and even initiate automatic announcements telling the passengers where to get off (as well as thanking them for traveling with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) etc of course). 

So all the Driver has to do is press the Open Doors button and FASDO does the rest.

[PhilWakely]

Yup - I can see set-down only in the AM and pick-up only on the PM a lot more once these other 365/387s services kick-in.

Would be interesting to know exactly how this would be policed. I have been on a number of westcountry services over the years that were advertised as pick-up only at Reading, yet there has always been a large exodus on arrival at Reading.

[stuving]

I do hope the plan is to lengthen platforms but I suspect we^ll be stuck with SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening), which lengthens dwell times especially if we^re looking at more than just the end doors being held closed.

In CP5^▸ (Control Period 5 - the five year period between 2014 and 2019) (as at Dec 2014) this work is part of project W004 "Thames Valley Electric Multiple Unit Capability Works":

^ a review of station operations at all stations where EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) trains are due to stop; this may result in changes such as: platform extensions; selective door opening; revisions to permissive working for attaching, detaching; platform sharing arrangements and alterations to signal controls and signal locations to deal with changes to train operations and alterations to DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) equipment (CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision), lighting and mirrors).

DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have indicated that the initial EMU operations will utilise class 319 units operating up to 12-car in length over the following core route sections:

Core routes
^ Paddington to Oxford.
^ Slough to Windsor and Eton Central.
^ Maidenhead to Marlow.
^ Twyford to Henley.
^ Reading to Newbury.
^ Reading to Basingstoke.

Activities and milestones

Milestone	Description	Date	Status
GRIP▸ (Guide to Railway Investment Projects) 3 completion	Single option selection	April 2015	Regulated Output
GRIP 4 completion	Single option scope defined	December 2015	Indicative
GRIP 6 start	Start on site (in phases)	October 2015	Indicative
GRIP 6 completion	Infrastructure ready for phased introduction of EMU operations	May 2016 ^ May 2017

So on that basis the decision of what to do where hasn't been made yet.

Note that to Swindon is not a core route - but that might be just because it has no station to be used by EMUs but not SETs^▸ (Super Express Train (now IET)).

Also, the following are also stated:

^ Dates within CP5 are yet to be committed for the electrification of the following branch lines: Slough to Windsor and Eton Central, Maidenhead to Marlow and Twyford to Henley.
^ The dates for the electrification between Reading to Basingstoke (Electric Spine) are yet to be agreed and may not be delivered in CP5.

[ChrisB]

Would be interesting to know exactly how this would be policed. I have been on a number of westcountry services over the years that were advertised as pick-up only at Reading, yet there has always been a large exodus on arrival at Reading.

Easiest way in the morning is for all the p/up trains to use one island platform (both sides if needed) with revenue protection at the top of the escalator. Thinking aloud, that would work in both directions actually

[Oxonhutch]

It would be much easier not to stop Reading. Reading to/from points-west passengers would merely change at Didcot in the peaks.

Is it envisaged that SWI^» (Swindon - next trains)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) would call at the local Didcot-Reading stations en route?  That would make for a nice service for me.

[ChrisB]

I suspect trains will be designed to be full

[didcotdean]

It would be much easier not to stop Reading. Reading to/from points-west passengers would merely change at Didcot in the peaks.

Is it envisaged that SWI^» (Swindon - next trains)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) would call at the local Didcot-Reading stations en route?  That would make for a nice service for me.

My understanding from past documents is that they are intended to be limited stop intended to relieve the long distance trains, although ideas change.

[Oxonhutch]

I suspect trains will be designed to be full

Chris, you are a little too subtle there for me. Would you care to explain please.

[ChrisB]

Won't be any point in stopping locally as the timetable will be designed such that the these are likely to be filled with the proposed SWI^» (Swindon - next trains)-DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains)-(RDG^‡(resolve))-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) in that they'll likely be the only fast trains for DID, and only sufficient in order that they'll cope with pax from those stations.

The local DID-RDG stations likely to be served from OXF^» (Oxford - next trains), running fast RDG-PAD, but slow OXF-RDG via Didcot - but pax from DID will use the fasts, so likely dropping at DID in the am, and picking up from DID in the pm

[ellendune]

If the EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) s are there to remove the need for the Fast trains to stop during the peak then why even think about pick up and set down only options?  If there is another train for those passengers to use without undue delay then don't stop.

[ChrisB]

Because you might work in Reading (lots do) and want to go to Bristol/Bath/Cardiff/Swansea? or vice-versa

[ellendune]

Because you might work in Reading (lots do) and want to go to Bristol/Bath/Cardiff/Swansea? or vice-versa

Yes but it all depends on how long they have to wait for the next one.

Easiest way in the morning is for all the p/up trains to use one island platform (both sides if needed) with revenue protection at the top of the escalator.

And what could revenue protection actually do when they stop people who have got off a train that was pick up only? Charge them for a return to the next stop?

[ChrisB]

Charge them a full single from origin to the first advertised stop, yes.