Class 387 coming to Thames Valley - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[paul7575]

I agree that in the longer term EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) with a better performance than the 319s will be needed to maximise track capacity. However, it was reported several months ago, after the franchise was extended, that fGW were told by the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) to stop work on procuring such trains. My impression then was that we were were going to be lumbered with the things[1] but I've since changed my mind. It may well be that the forthcoming Direct Award to fGW to continue operating the Western will permit, encourage or require that fGW starts procurement of more suitable trains. My reasoning is that the franchise extension is a continuation of the status quo, whereas the Direct Award is a new contract with different T&Cs and such requirements can be included.

My thoughts were that 'procurement' meant the full process of specifying the requirement in an ITT^▸ (Invitation to Tender), and then organising finance via a Rosco etc.  But using trains that someone else had already procured on DfT's behalf would simply be taking over a lease as directed by DfT; and that could apply to the 387/1s...

I suppose it depends how much you read into the exact meaning of the word...

Paul

[drandles]

I believe FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have already indicated informally that they are negotiating to acquire the Class 387/1s.  The expected delivery rate of Class 700 units to Thamesllink should allow all 29 Class 387/1s to be released from Thameslink by December 2016 when the Oxford & Newbury electrification is due to be completed.

At present FGW uses (approx.) 36 Class 165/1 units and 21 Class 166 units.  Quite a few of these are used on diagrams over routes that will not be electrified under current plans (eg Reading-Gatwick, north of Oxford etc).  Additionally quite a few 166 diagrams will be worked by Class 800 IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) (eg Cotswold services).  So it is not inconceivable that the 29 Class 387/1s would be sufficient to cover the electrified Thames Valley local services on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line).  The only uncertainty is what will be used on the electrified branch services to Marlow which will need to be 2 car units.

David

[ChrisB]

Can you say to whom they have informally indicated this to?

Or is it just heresay (ie you don't know)

[DidcotPunter]

I believe FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have already indicated informally that they are negotiating to acquire the Class 387/1s.  The expected delivery rate of Class 700 units to Thamesllink should allow all 29 Class 387/1s to be released from Thameslink by December 2016 when the Oxford & Newbury electrification is due to be completed.

At present FGW uses (approx.) 36 Class 165/1 units and 21 Class 166 units.  Quite a few of these are used on diagrams over routes that will not be electrified under current plans (eg Reading-Gatwick, north of Oxford etc).  Additionally quite a few 166 diagrams will be worked by Class 800 IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) (eg Cotswold services).  So it is not inconceivable that the 29 Class 387/1s would be sufficient to cover the electrified Thames Valley local services on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line).  The only uncertainty is what will be used on the electrified branch services to Marlow which will need to be 2 car units.

David

And don't forget that - eventually - the Reading to Paddington stoppers will be taken over by Crossrail and will be operated by Class 345 units. The 387/1s would be utilised on Padd-Newbury, Padd-Oxford services which aren't operated by IEP, and possibly Reading to Basingstoke. I expect the service to be completely recast post-electrification but I would have thought that 29 units would be enough, even allowing for some 8 or even 12 car trains on the main line in the rush hour.

[ChrisB]

That's eventually, while the largest number will be needed to start with....

[IndustryInsider]

Hence my post on the previous page suggesting that 319s might be used as a stop-gap for a couple of years with the 387s remaining post-Crossrail.

[ChrisB]

377s or 387s? Now I'm getting confused :-)

[paul7575]

377s or 387s? Now I'm getting confused :-)

Well the 387s were usually referred to as 377/8s for quite a long time...

Now that the things are being seen in service on the Brighton - Bedfords, they aren't that different from a 377.  There seems to be a reasonable assumption that the class number change was purely to differentiate their top speed - which is of course unused in their current employment.

Paul

[grahame]

Can you say to whom they have informally indicated this to?

Or is it just heresay (ie you don't know)

Hmmm ... that reads a bit rude to me .... "Children!" or should I say "Child!"?

We have a separate board area - "The Rumour Mill" where we usually post completely unsubstantiated information, but that's only available to member who have reached a certain threshold of posts.   So in this thread, where the information comes from a newer member, it's perfectly  fine and the only place it could have been posted!

[Chris from Nailsea]

... is it just heresay ...

As a matter of interest, ChrisB, did you mean 'heresy' or 'hearsay'? 

[ChrisB]

Hearsay :-)

[ChrisB]

Hoping to get an answer to my Q though

[JayMac]

Hoping to get an answer to my Q though

Desmond Llewelyn? 

[Timmer]

Hoping to get an answer to my Q though

Desmond Llewelyn? 

Or the new Q Ben Whishaw aka Paddington (keeping it railway related...I'll get my coat)

[Western Pathfinder]

Hoping to get an answer to my Q though

Desmond Llewelyn? 

Best answer to a question ever 1 Never let them see you bleed. 2 Allways have an escape plan .