Class 387 coming to Thames Valley - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

And so do the trams in Nice and I'm sure many other places.  But running a Class 387 on batteries on the main line, for example between Newbury and Bedwyn, is very different. To avoid public ridicule they would need timings and thus performance (ie acceleration and top speed) at least as good as a Turbo: they can't just accelerate up to 45 mph or whatever and then trundle along until the next stop.


   

[John R]

I would agree. I'm also not convinced about the economics.  Just looking at the Bedwyn service, how many units will need to be fitted with batteries to ensure cover for all services. Most of the time these will be on normal services carting around all that extra weight (not to mention the initial cost).  Might be easier/more cost effective just to string the wires up for the extra distance, particularly since the WoE AT300s will also benefit from the extra distance under the wires.

[Billhere]

I would agree, but why stop at Bedwyn ? There is a large catchment area at Pewsey, many of whom now drive to Bedwyn and take up even more of the parking spaces at that location to the annoyance of the residents.

They would enjoy a far better service than is currently available.

In which case why not pop on down to Westbury as well, round the corner and down to Bathampton and voila through electrification. No doubt that will be the final aim, but remember thirty years ago the B and H from Southcote Junction was going to be a single line as far as Newbury, with a set of stop blocks under the Black Boys Bridge, everywhere else West being abandoned and track lifted. Only the lack of suitable paths for the stone trains via Swindon stopped it happening.

Bedwyn, what a strange place to stop the outer suburban route. I was told it was the home of Sir Felix Pole one of the top men of the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) who required his train to London to start there.

[IndustryInsider]

I would agree, but why stop at Bedwyn ?

I think an hourly semi-fast service from Paddington to Westbury using one of the new Hitachi units (with some extending on as stoppers to Exeter), is much more likely than Class 387s on batteries, though if Westbury does get the wires then 387s might be a more logical choice then - but that's many years away still.  Alternative hours stopping at Kintbury and Bedwyn has been suggested for that route, with a Bedwyn to Newbury DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) shuttle likely to bump that up to an hourly service from those stations.

[John R]

I would agree, but why stop at Bedwyn ?

Because that's where the current service extends to.  There's a difference between maintaining an existing service and spending money to deliver a new one that may or may not prove worthwhile. Particularly in the current economic climate on the railways.

[Thatcham Crossing]

Bedwyn, what a strange place to stop the outer suburban route.

It often strikes me that it is aswell, the Bedwyn's are both small villages (albeit well-heeled).

Purely historic reasons, and that it has a turn-back siding (albeit no use for anything longer than a 3 coach Turbo - AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know)) should not be the basis for designing better services on this route.

5 car bi-modes running a semi-fast service to Westbury would benefit all Stations along the route, including those east of Newbury 

[grahame]

Bedwyn, what a strange place to stop the outer suburban route.

It often strikes me that it is as well, the Bedwyn's are both small villages (albeit well-heeled).

Bedwyn is also the railhead for Marlborough, population around 18,000 and boasts a rail link bus service from Bedwyn Station into the town. Quite unusually for buses that call at train stations, this one actually waits a bit if the train's late so that it's really much more of a "rail link" than many.

It should be noted that although Pewsey is just as close to Marlborough as Bedwyn, a journey from Marlborough to London via Pewsey involves doubling back on yourself, the train fare is higher and services less frequent.

There are calls for reinstatement of the line from Savernake (between Bedwyn and Pewsey) to Marlborough - see https://www.transitionmarlborough.org/Transport+Group+homepage for a link to the report at https://www.transitionmarlborough.org/tiki-download_wiki_attachment.php?attId=52 which makes their case.

Bedwyn Station should not be judged just purely on the local within walking / cycling distance, nor on the operational convenience of the turn back siding.

[John R]

It also serves Hungerford en route remember, which has a respectable number of passengers. So not completely illogical to end the suburban service there, given the next station is another 9 miles further on, and the one beyond that a further 20 miles.  

I would agree though that any enhancement to the service would be most likely facilitated by use of 5 car bi-modes.  Given GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) are reportedly looking at an additional order of AT300s, this might not be completely out of the running.

[Adelante_CCT]

5 car bi-modes running a semi-fast service to Westbury would benefit all Stations along the route, including those east of Newbury 

You wouldn't happen to be referring to Thatcham would you? 

[Thatcham Crossing]

You wouldn't happen to be referring to Thatcham would you?  Wink

Indeed I would, our current mainly Turbo-operated semi-fasts seem to be getting busier and busier.

In answer to grahame, yes I'm aware of the bus link to Marlborough, but I think the point I (and others) are making that Bedwyn doesn't need to be the terminus for semi-fast services going forward (suggesting it should be somewhere further west) still stands.

That would of course be good news for Bedwyn, which AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know) has very little westbound service today.

[Oberon]

The sensible thing to do would be to reopen Savernake-Marlborough and build a large park & ride railhead-type station at the end of the line. Of course it would be electrified and have a day long semi-fast service to Paddington.

In my dreams..

[ellendune]

The sensible thing to do would be to reopen Savernake-Marlborough and build a large park & ride railhead-type station at the end of the line. Of course it would be electrified and have a day long semi-fast service to Paddington.

In my dreams..

The proposed Swindon terminators could be the semi-fast services.   Ahh we can dream

[Noggin]

It might perhaps make sense to extend the Bedwyn services and terminate them at Marlborough? I suspect that operationally and financially it would make much more sense if it were done as part of electrification though (387's to Marlborough), and of course it is always difficult politically to be spending money on areas that the rest of the country sees as 'privileged', even if it is justified commercially, traffic reduction and we all know there's plenty of deprivation in leafy rural areas too.

Electrification from Newbury to Westbury, Westbury to the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) (and probably Westbury to Southamption) would appear to have a pretty good business case, if only on the grounds of switching freight haulage from diesel to electric, and getting rid of a few more DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit).

I suppose the question is how good the business case is against other projects in the South West, and whether it makes it into CP6^▸ (Control Period 6 - The five year period between 2019 and 2024) or is relegated to CP7? The cynic in me says that despite an outwardly objective process, a lot of the CP6 programme is going to be aimed at marginal constituencies and keeping England blue. 

[ChrisB]

Does Marlborough have a station or are you proposing they construct one in the same process?

[IndustryInsider]

The cynic in me says that despite an outwardly objective process, a lot of the CP6^▸ (Control Period 6 - The five year period between 2019 and 2024) programme is going to be aimed at marginal constituencies and keeping England blue. 

Does Marlborough have a station or are you proposing they construct one in the same process?

No station at Marlborough.  And about 5 miles of new track would have to be relaid.  Fortunately not much in the way of buildings built on the old formation, but there was at least one tunnel that would no doubt be costly to bring back into service.

Sadly, I've got a feeling a lot of the CP6 programme will be about finishing off stuff that was due to be done in CP5^▸ (Control Period 5 - the five year period between 2014 and 2019).  I'd be very surprised if any additional route reopening projects not currently at a fairly advanced planning stage (such as Bedford to Cambridge, March to Wisbech, or Bere Alston to Tavistock) made it into the CP6 pot, and even those could well fall back into CP7.