SDO............why the discrepancies

[whole diary]

[vacman]

Are grandfather rights limited to specific older trains (like HST^▸ (High Speed Train)) only or are they limited to specific stations as well.  The former makes some sense (although I am not sure I agree with teh logic teh logic is there), The latter does not.

Both!

[John R]

I was wondering whether there were any others apart from Worle where SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) has enabled a station to be served by HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) as timetabled stops since December? I agree it makes good business sense, but only if it works!

[willc]

John,

Shipton, see my picture (may not display in some older browsers and do you have to be logged in to see pictures?), is a case in point, as is Hanborough, both Cotswold Line stations served regularly by 125s since December, plus, in emergencies - has happened twice now - the halts at Combe, Finstock and Ascott-under-Wychwood.

[Mookiemoo]

John,

Shipton, see my picture (may not display in some older browsers), is a case in point, as is Hanborough, both Cotswold Line stations served regularly by 125s since December, plus, in emergencies - has happened twice now - the halts at Combe, Finstock and Ascott-under-Wychwood.

True but it does not negate the lack of common sense

Honeybourne has been served by HST^▸ (High Speed Train) for years with I think only 3 carriages on the platform

Even without SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) this could continue - but Hanborough could not be started

Now, if it is dangerous and against H&S^▸ (Health and Safety) to stop at Hanborough, it has to be the same to stop at Honeybourne

Grandfather rights are a load of political twaddle

It is either safe or dangerous - if the first, then no problem, if the second, it shouldnt happen anywhere

Question - since high speed trains have been stopping at short platforms (i.e. since they very first began) how many recorded incidents of injury have been incurred by morons stepping out of a train without looking where they are going?  What was the financial loss?  And was this loss equal to the amount of bad press and pissed off cutomers that have resulted.

And dont say "worle" because a HST could have stopped at Worle if some human in the chain had had the gumption to say, this is a ******* joke.

[John R]

Ah, that will please my old friend Mr Matthews, of the mill in Shipton.

[vacman]

Stations which can now be served by HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s if needs be are, St Budeaux Ferry road, Dockyard, Ivybridge, Torre??, Worle, plenty of stations on the Cotswold line I believe? Bruton is one which hasn't been mentioned, and i'll bet there are plenty more!!

[dog box]

Think it only really concerns HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) due to there length, age and having slam doors Tim..

[Conner]

Stations which can now be served by HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s if needs be are, St Budeaux Ferry road, Dockyard, Ivybridge, Torre??, Worle, plenty of stations on the Cotswold line I believe? Bruton is one which hasn't been mentioned, and i'll bet there are plenty more!!

In theory can't HST's stop at any station once they've worked out which carriages to unlock.

[willc]

Is it just me, or is this thread starting to go round in circles?

1. Grandfather rights. They are no longer relevant, SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) is here to stay, though frankly I still don't believe this stuff about running non-stop past short platform stations if there is an SDO fault. I ask again, has anyone heard of a case of this actually happening yet? Or maybe the SDO system is the most reliable thing FGW^▸ (First Great Western) operates.

2. Agreed, grandfather rights were often a nonsense, eg Hanborough v Honeybourne. Although they weren't meant to call there, on several occasions, after a previous cancellation, I travelled on 125s where the driver was handed a special stop order for Hanborough at Oxford. In neither of the incidents of doors being opened off the platform at Charlbury that I recall did anyone fall out, as they quickly noticed the big drop, assisted by a shout from the guards, who were always on alert for this.

3. The key issue related to the introduction of SDO was the policy change to stopping the front end of 125s on the platform, even if this meant first class occupying all, or almost all of a platform in the morning peak. On the basis of Mike Carroll's comments in Charlbury last Friday, they are now going back to the pre-December practice of stopping standard class on platforms, as soon as all the relevant staff get a proper briefing about the do's and don'ts. I'm sure there will be exceptions, just as there were before SDO, especially if a train formation is reversed, or no off-platform stop markers for drivers are provided, which I assume is the case at many of the extra stations now being served.

[Chris from Nailsea]

... assisted by a shout from the guards, who were always on alert for this.

As in, "Oi, ****head, step back inside and shut that door!!!"

Seriously, thanks, Will, for your summary of this: I must say, I was getting giddy, going round in circles like that.

[Mookiemoo]

3. The key issue related to the introduction of SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) was the policy change to stopping the front end of 125s on the platform, even if this meant first class occupying all, or almost all of a platform in the morning peak. On the basis of Mike Carroll's comments in Charlbury last Friday, they are now going back to the pre-December practice of stopping standard class on platforms, as soon as all the relevant staff get a proper briefing about the do's and don'ts. I'm sure there will be exceptions, just as there were before SDO, especially if a train formation is reversed, or no off-platform stop markers for drivers are provided, which I assume is the case at many of the extra stations now being served.

Or maybe its a policy decision to do away with first class.

I have noticed a distinct hostility towards first class passengers on occasiion..............  that we should give up our mobile offices to allow other people to have a seat

Maybe the theory was - piss off enough of us, thwy wont have a first class market so can stick 8 standard cattle cars on in the peak

Just a theory

[Chris from Nailsea]

An interesting theory - but I'm not sure it's viable, though.  (Sorry, Mookiemoo, I'm going to disagree with you on this one!) 

Lots of first class passengers pay the full whack - and that's big money - for season tickets. Pound for pound, relative to passengers carried / miles travelled, that's a lot more than the equivalent rate for standard class.  That's good business for any TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company).

First class is 'generally' not oversubscribed - that's why late discounts/upgrades are often available for first class, to fill seats that would otherwise be empty.  Again, good business for any TOC.

Now, I can only comment from a Bristol - Paddington - Bristol perspective (not WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) - PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) - WOS, which I do accept may be quite different!), but I have often observed that first class is relatively deserted most of the time.  How about a compromise, where we remove carriage G from first class, leaving H and the F part of the buffet car, and add another coach (EE?) to standard class accomodation?  That would perhaps double the capacity of one carriage within the train, and resolve a lot of the current problems of overcrowding - and mean that only one and a half first class carriages would have to be accomodated under SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening), not two and a half!

Now, I'll just duck back down and wait to be shot at!

[Conner]

1.running non-stop past short platform stations if there is an SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) fault. I ask again, has anyone heard of a case of this actually happening yet? Or maybe the SDO system is the most reliable thing FGW^▸ (First Great Western) operates.

There was a case in Cornwall where the TM^‡(resolve) was not SDO trained so the service had to have enough carriages locked out of use so that it could call at every station. I think it must have only been Standard open as it called at Hayle which only accomadates five carriages so everything else would have been locked from Exeter/Plymouth downwards.

How about a compromise, where we remove carriage G from first class, leaving H and the F part of the buffet car, and add another coach (EE?) to standard class accomodation? 

I think that this would be a brilliant idea. You could get rid of H rename it F, the buffet G and the First Class carriage H. F could be converted to original HST^▸ (High Speed Train) layout, i.e. all at tables, name it The Family Carriage and have a special Group Booking Line so Groups or Families could book a table.

[vacman]

1.running non-stop past short platform stations if there is an SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) fault. I ask again, has anyone heard of a case of this actually happening yet? Or maybe the SDO system is the most reliable thing FGW^▸ (First Great Western) operates.

There was a case in Cornwall where the TM^‡(resolve) was not SDO trained so the service had to have enough carriages locked out of use so that it could call at every station. I think it must have only been Standard open as it called at Hayle which only accomadates five carriages so everything else would have been locked from Exeter/Plymouth downwards.

How about a compromise, where we remove carriage G from first class, leaving H and the F part of the buffet car, and add another coach (EE?) to standard class accomodation? 

I think that this would be a brilliant idea. You could get rid of H rename it F, the buffet G and the First Class carriage H. F could be converted to original HST^▸ (High Speed Train) layout, i.e. all at tables, name it The Family Carriage and have a special Group Booking Line so Groups or Families could book a table.

I'll have to disagree here, first clas can get VERY busy between Plymouth/Exeter and the capital, try going up on the 0505 Pnz-Padd on a week day and just look in the first class! The one compromise could be to convert the buffet to Standard accomodation with tables only. One thing worth noting on the "golden Hind", the 0505 Pnz-Padd, is that a SOR from Truro to Padd is about ^257 and an FOR is about ^330, for the extra ^70 you may as well go FC^‡(resolve) when forking out that much for a ticket! the "Golden Hind" is the only "peak" train from Cornwall.

[12hoursunday]

On the introduction of SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) it was intended to stop the front coaches onto the platform, First Class normally in the up direction and where trains normally stopped in the down direction ie Standard Class. (we all know that O.K). But despite being told by the people on the ground (including Standard Managers) that it would not work the powers that be snuggled up in their warm little office in the ivory towers of Swindon instructed all and sundry that that was the way THEY wanted it done and that was the way it WOULD be done, end of story.

Then came launch day, trains stopping at new stations with short platforms and stations which have been called at for years on their way to London needing to have bikes loaded into the power cars then unloaded again a couple of stations up the line were arriving into Paddington 30/40 minutes late even with a Guard and a couple of Managers trying to make this cock handed system work.

The answer to this was to trial the old system using the SDO opening the doors to the rear instead of the front, eight trains daily which are the 06.26 Weston-Super-Mare(W-S-M), 0648 W-S-M, 05.24 Plymouth, 06.45 Exeter St Davids, 07.38 Paington, 05.30 Gt Malvern, 05.11 Abergavenny and the 06.09 Abergavenny. Hey guess what IT WORKS this is in until further notice we are told and I for one wonder if those power mad managers in the ivory tower who chose not to listen to us numbties who do the job every day will ever have the balls to eat their humble pie and bring back in the system that has worked successfully for the past er um well forever actually.