A question about when HSTs were introduced

[whole diary]

[BerkshireBugsy]

I seem to remember that someone involved in the design of the power cars disliked the original front design (show in the first of the two pictures earlier) and changed it at the last minute hoping it would be too late for anyone to object.

What ever the cause of the redesign - much prefer "version 2" that we have today.

[Western Enterprise]

I seem to remember that someone involved in the design of the power cars disliked the original front design (show in the first of the two pictures earlier) and changed it at the last minute hoping it would be too late for anyone to object.

What ever the cause of the redesign - much prefer "version 2" that we have today.

Wasn't it something to do with one man vs two man crew held up by the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers)(or aslef) in the early 70's?
The original HST^▸ (High Speed Train) was set up for one man working, whereas the revised style (the one we have now) is two man.
I think the RMT input delayed the introduction of the HST for a year or two ?.

[eightf48544]

HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) were double manned when they started this was gradually errode to I think above 100 mph running. So for a while you had West Country HSTs double mamned between Reading and Paddington.

Also of course to keep time they had to run at 125 whenever they could. With 100 mph sprint averages between Bath and Reading.

[4064ReadingAbbey]

I seem to remember that someone involved in the design of the power cars disliked the original front design (show in the first of the two pictures earlier) and changed it at the last minute hoping it would be too late for anyone to object.

What ever the cause of the redesign - much prefer "version 2" that we have today.

The front of the prototype power cars was based on an streamlined nosecone made by BR^▸ (British Rail(ways))'s Plastics Development Unit at Derby and attached to an AL6 electric locomotive (now Class 86) E3173 in the late 1960s for high speed aerodynamic testing. This locomotive was also used for the trials of the Helicoil secondary suspension, used for the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) power cars (and used in airbag form in practically every bogie ever since) and so earned the name Zebedee after the TV Magic Roundabout character.

After construction of the prototypes ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) (not the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) which didn't exist then) 'blacked' the trains for a year because the locomotives were not designed for two man operation. Finally test running started under a special agreement which saw the production trains equipped with two proper seats in the cab.

Before the locomotives went into production the nose was re-styled for several reasons. Firstly to meet ASLEF's demands that trains still had to have a fireman so the seating and window arrangements needed to be changed; development made it possible to manufacture larger sheets of armoured glass for the windscreens and the BR Design Panel thought that the trains need a more impressive appearance than the prototypes. The Chief Mechanical Engineer was persuaded that this was good idea and BR engaged Kenneth Grange (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Grange) to re-work the frontal appearance.

The rest, as they say, is history!

[JayMac]

A picture of 'Zebedee':

http://www.traintesting.com/images/zebedee_at_cheddington.jpg
(Copyright precludes me posting it on this forum)

From this page:

http://www.traintesting.com/high_speed_testing.htm

[stuving]

There's several items in the Railway Archive on HST^▸ (High Speed Train), and APT^▸ (Advanced Passenger Train) too, if you want some homework interesting reading.

There's a technical briefing from August 1977, full of facts if rather Boys' Own in its style. Once you've found this on the search page, you should see a list of links to related documents.

There's also several government policy and planning documents, showing the financial state of the railways (and they were in a state) and transport in general. From 1976 there's a consultation paper and its technical volume 2, then in 1977 the resulting white paper on transport (often linked to Tony Crosland's name as minister) and one on rail alone - HMG's response to the Commons committee and the BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) Board (wrongly archived as November 1978).

That of course gives the financial and political background while APT was being developed. APT is only represented by a few leaflets, but there is more on http://www.apt-p.com/.

Oh, and I stumbled across a mention of the first class 50s being leased from English Electric for a while. I think this would be a way to deliver them earlier than BRB^‡(resolve)'s capital budget could cope with, for whatever reason. Not unusual, and involving credit at a neutral rate as it suited both parties. However, at that date (1967) I suspect that large-scale leasing as a financial ploy was unknown.

[Western Enterprise]

From this page:

http://www.traintesting.com/high_speed_testing.htm

Great picture of Test Car 4 with the needle off the gauge at 120 mph - health and safety ??

[eightf48544]

Am I right that 40 mins start stop for the 71m 42 ch and a bit miles from Bath to Reading is around 105 average. Corrected can't multiply 35 by 3

Also saw specialy shortened " Top of the Pops" beat the Lonsdon Bristol record. We watched it leave Padd on the TV and then got all the local kids on our gararge roof and watched it streak by, no trees in those days! Then back to the TV to watch it arrive in Bristol.

[TaplowGreen]

......shame about the chap they used to promote it though!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvI5mp_8g1w

[Western Pathfinder]

When I first saw this thread I wondered just how long it would be before that creep got into the conversation !
not what you would call Peter Parkers best idea with the benefit of hindsight
which is a shame when you think of just how well the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) has done us for all these years .

[BerkshireBugsy]

When I first saw this thread I wondered just how long it would be before that creep got into the conversation !
not what you would call Peter Parkers best idea with the benefit of hindsight
which is a shame when you think of just how well the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) has done us for all these years .

I agree - but like you say at the time we didn't know any different

[TaplowGreen]

When I first saw this thread I wondered just how long it would be before that creep got into the conversation !
not what you would call Peter Parkers best idea with the benefit of hindsight
which is a shame when you think of just how well the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) has done us for all these years .

I agree - but like you say at the time we didn't know any different

I'm sure FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will "fix it" 

[IanL]

I remember a school trip just before xmas 1976 (I think) where we went to London from Bristol on a saturday school trip to see Madame Tussauds and the London Plantetarium (no longer operating). The trains were brand new and the automatic doors between passenger carriages were a big novelty for an eleven year old group of kids from the country! I seem to remember a speed display in the carriage as well with a big cheer when it went unto 125mph.

[John R]

I didn't realise the London Planetarium is no more. Went digging and found this quote from Madame Tussauds at the time of the closure:-

"I do appreciate the importance of the Planetarium as a tool to learning but this is simply not the field within which our brand stands today."

So why didn't they sell it then rather than destroy one of the best educational destinations for school trips in London.

[didcotdean]

There is one now at the Royal Observatory.